LifeTalk Podcast
LifeTalk is the official podcast of LifeHouse Church MOT. Our heart for this podcast is to help our church grow and to go deeper here at LifeHouse. We’ll be interviewing staff members & hearing their testimonies. We’ll be discussing various topics such as parenting, marriage, day-to-day functions of the ministry and so much more from a biblical perspective. Our goal is to help equip our church to glorify JESUS in every area of life.
LifeTalk Podcast
Faith, Service, And The Quiet Work Of Church Safety
A green shirt in the lobby can mean more than a friendly hello—it might be the quiet promise that you can worship in peace. We sit down with Gus and Gary, longtime law enforcement pros turned church servants, to explore how God redeems our work and how practical vigilance can coexist with deep, joyful faith.
Gus traces his journey from a mixed religious upbringing to a Bible-centered church that shifted him from checking boxes to building a living relationship with Christ. Gary’s doorway was unexpected: Friday jiu-jitsu classes with a pastor who rolls on the mat and opens Scripture on Sunday. Together they explain how a safety ministry grew from instinct to intentionality—SOPs, training, and a calm presence—so families can focus on the Word while a thoughtful team watches the room.
The stories go deeper than procedures. Gus recalls a chase and a sudden, unexplainable stop at the woods—later learning the suspect waited with a gun. That pause, he says, was God’s protection. Both men share regrets about missed moments to point people to Jesus and how Scripture, mentors, and community have made them bolder and kinder. We talk about serving without fear, letting God lead our careers, and seeing setbacks as protection or redirection. We also widen the lens beyond Sunday: coaching Special Olympics, volunteering in the city, and living so visibly that people ask, Why are you different?
If you’ve ever wondered how your weekday skills could matter in a church, or how to balance vigilance with worship, this conversation offers hope, clarity, and next steps. Join us to learn how availability becomes ministry, why community shapes courage, and how God uses ordinary work to guard, guide, and grow His people. Enjoyed this conversation? Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help others find it.
New episodes every Monday
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Join us Sundays at 9 & 11 AM
Intro music by Joey Blair
What's up, Life Talk family? Welcome back to the Life Talk Podcast. We are coming to you today, as we usually are, with special today guests. I got uh plural. We've got two very special guests with us today. First, we have Gus Gustavo Zeisek.
SPEAKER_00:Gus, how are you doing today? Doing fantastic. How are you?
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, doing great sitting down with you guys. And we have Gary Taylor. Gary, how's it going today?
SPEAKER_01:Very good. Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Well, so good to have you guys. You know, one of you guys went enough. I think I see you guys together all the time. You're like a you know dynamic duo. Yeah, we're a package deal now. That's what I figured. So I was like when we were scheduling this, I was like, I don't know if I'm allowed to have just one of these guys on. I think they got to come on together. But uh but for the Life Talk family, we are journeying through the month of October of November. Man, I can see months fly by, but we're in November. Our theme is we work. And so, really, how God redeems our work, how both serving and what we do in our our day-to-day and our careers is something that is for God's glory. It's something we should do completely differently as believers. So I know Gus and Gary have some amazing stories, some very interesting perspective that we will get to, but uh just let's get to know you guys a little bit better for the listeners, for those who don't know, and my understanding, Gus pulls ranks, so uh guess a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_00:I got one step higher than Gary, so I guess I get to go for that. There you go. So um yeah, moved down to Delaware in uh 1993. Uh I was a graduate of Westfield State criminal justice major, played some football there. From Massachusetts, right? Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so we had Bill on last month, so we've got the Massachusetts theme going.
SPEAKER_00:The New England thing. Some clam chowder is gonna be coming up here soon. And um yeah, came here for the job and uh eventually had a friend on the same squad who introduced me to this girl, and that girl later became my wife, Melissa. So we got married, had two kids, and um that's where we're at. So during the course of our courtship, um I would say so. Let's back up a little bit. I I I kind of grew up with a Puerto Rican mother and a German father. So I I was brought up both Mormon and Catholic. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:That explains the Gustavo and the Zeisigan. The Gustavo, right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Born in Puerto Rico, uh, eventually moved to Ithaca, and then eventually Massachusetts. And we were actually moving all over the place. My dad was a contractor for the government, so um yeah, the move part wasn't too difficult for me. But the point is that uh, you know, we came together and I I would say her faith was definitely a little bit stronger than mine at the time, but we definitely agreed that God was going to be a part of our lives. And uh we got married in a Presbyterian church. Of course, I had to go through pre-canon with a Catholic priest. So we did all that, got married, had our kids, and um here we are today. I guess that's like the preamble of what we are.
SPEAKER_02:So what would you say kind of the the faith aspect, like you say, sounds like it wasn't growing up as much? Is there kind of that point where really, you know, you say definitely in your marriage you guys decided, but how did God kind of work?
SPEAKER_00:So I I I think through time there's you know, I was baptized in the Mormon church. So as as a as a teenager, I had my faith and belief in God and Jesus Christ as my savior. But at a young age, it's a different perspective than what you have now. Um and there's a whole lifetime of challenges and perceptions and ideas that I guess we're gonna talk here about in a minute that have definitely gone through my life to the point that you know we're talking about now.
SPEAKER_02:Um how did that transition from Mormonism? Just curious. I know we talked to Oscar, you know, a few months ago. He was in Jehovah's Witnesses, we've had some other people, Chris Daly, who was in the Mormon church, kind of like realizing need to change beliefs. You know, I know you kind of said that introduces you to the Bible, but just curious how that goes.
SPEAKER_00:So that that's the key right there. Uh, you know, when we got married, we went from church to church, and then nothing kind of really fit right until we came here. Um, this is back in the you know, Everett middle school. Early isn't it. And and what struck me was that our pastor was preaching the word directly from the Bible. Um and I I just latched on to that. Now we'll talk about this a little bit more, but you know, it back in those days I was more of the guy who came in on on Sunday, check the box, I did my thing, I came to church, and now it's definitely a different perspective. Uh huh. It's more about building that relationship with God that you have to come in, you have to serve, you have to pray and and build that relationship, that that father-son relationship.
SPEAKER_02:We know we get to that relationship through Christ, he establishes it, but you can't really build that relationship if it's just like, yay, thanks.
SPEAKER_00:And you can't, you know, coming in to say, hey, hey, look, look, look at me. I walked into church and checked the box and then go watch football. That's not how you're gonna get there.
SPEAKER_02:That's right. Won't build the relationship. Correct. Well, good. And so I know uh for both you guys, law enforcement. So you came to Delaware for you know, career in the Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So uh work with the county police uh from '93, did thirty-one years, was lucky enough to get promoted to sergeant and eventually lieutenant. Um during that stint, I did some time of detectives as a undercover or you know, drug cop. Um also did a stint doing child crime investigations, uh eventually got promoted, promoted uh to supervised people on the road, eventually ran the drug unit for several years, and then ran the major crimes investigations unit and went back to the road, got promoted again, and kind of the same thing, ran detective investigations and kind of closed out my career back on the road.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, very cool. So for both Gary and Gus, they have a law enforcement background, so we'll get to uh Gary's, but just wanted to bring that out 31 years, and I know we'll, like you said, talk more uh just how God works through those experiences and uh various other things, and so um, you know, definitely look forward to hearing you you more. So well, Gary, I know we got Gus's brief testimony, but Gary's sitting over here waiting, you know, on the bench, you know. So but tell us more about Gary and you know, kind of your upbringing, coming to faith and and Life House and just your your story.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Um I was born in Chester, Pennsylvania, um at about one year old. Uh my parents moved to uh Newark, Delaware, and uh they still live in the same house that I grew up in and been here ever since. Um lived and moved to Middletown um back in '97, and still in the same house there. Um so that's my Delaware history. Uh my wife and I went to high school together, met there and dated and got married, you know, right out of college. And so we've been together uh 40 years almost now. Okay. So it's been a long run uh on that. Um what brought me to Life House is an interesting story. I grew up unchurched. Okay. Um the only time I saw the inside of a church was weddings and funerals. That was about extent of my church experience. And um a lot of those were were Catholic related. So I it wasn't enjoyable uh attending them. Um just didn't seem right. Um so but outside of that, I never went to church. It just wasn't a part of my family's life. Um so what brought me to Lifehouse though is a little bit more of a funny story in the sense that um, you know, I train in jiu-jitsu, as we've talked about before. Um, and I used to train with a guy, Anthony Fulginetti. Uh you know that guy. Yeah, Lifehouse Church guy, great guy, great jujitsu guy. Um, and so we we were training together, and he had told me that, hey, I'm you know going to be teaching on Friday mornings over here at Lifehouse Church if you wanted to give me a hand. Uh he said, 'cause you know, they get about you know, eight to ten guys come out there that you know don't have much experience yet, and he could use some help. And he was, oh, by the way, the the pastor also takes jiu-jitsu. He takes the class too. Uh and I thought to myself, that's that's pretty wild, you know, because jujitsu, for those that don't know, it's uh ground fighting. It's it's a violent combat sport. You see it on UFC when the fight goes to the ground, most of the time they're applying jiu-jitsu techniques. Um I was that piqued my interest, the fact that you know uh the pastor would would dabble in jiu-jitsu. So so I came in, um, he had already been running a couple of classes, got to meet the the guys on the mat, great guys, and some of them I had already known through other jujitsu areas. Um so it was and I got to meet Mark, Pastor Mark. Um, great guy. You know, I'm like, wow, this is you know, this is really neat, you know, to meet such a great group of guys, um, and this is you know church based and to meet Mark and talk with Mark. Um, so I was like, I I need to hear his sermon. I need to check it out. So funny story was is that you know I go home and my wife, yeah, how was it? And I said, that was great. I you know, I got to meet Pastor Mark, and uh you know, I thought I'm gonna go to Sunday service. I want to hear him speak. And she was like, Do you want me to go with you? And I was like, that's it's hold off here. Let's pump the brakes. I don't know yet. I don't know how things are. I just know that you know, from meeting him and and the other guys on the map, these are you know, these are really great people. But I let me check this out first. It's the cop side of always being kind of gotta investigate, not sure yet, and I don't want to, you know, bring in some collateral damage here if this thing doesn't work right. Uh so went in and and got to listen to uh first the music was amazing, listening to uh Rob's team and and the music just you know was phenomenal. And then Mark's sermon was was phenomenal. I wish I'd taken notes of what his first sermon was that I heard because you know because it was really the first true experience I had with church, but it very impressed. And uh went home and I told her, I said, yeah, this is we need to check this out. Yeah, this place is really, really something. So that's what brought me to Life House. And I don't know, I've maybe only missed maybe one or two Sundays in the last it'll be three years in May um that I've been attending. And um, but yeah, I it's it's I look forward to it every Sunday and and all.
SPEAKER_02:So that really kind of what brought you to faith was really coming to Life House, just seeing a more faithful church, hearing the truth, you know, those kind of things really you wouldn't say you had it before, and and kind of coming into Life House.
SPEAKER_01:And the other neat thing is when I would come in on on Sunday, all of a sudden I saw a lot of people that I was already friends with on the outside. Just didn't know, you know, the connection with church. Um, you know, so it was really neat seeing people that I already had connections to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that that was the other neat thing.
SPEAKER_02:Having that community as well. So yeah, changes when you finally see, you know, again, we're lifehouse, not a perfect church by any stretch, but when you see a faithful church versus, you know, we don't beat up denominations so much, we could do entire episodes, but the Catholic, you know, that you grew up in, where it's all ritualistic versus truly the word and worship, how it can make a difference. And yeah, having a pastor who does jujitsu, not a bad thing, you know, we're seeking to you know reach and all that. So that's awesome. Yeah, Anthony's a good guy, and yeah, how that even jiu-jitsu that speaking to ways our work and the things we do can reach people, and you're a big example of that.
SPEAKER_01:What I've said is uh, you know, God found me, you know, he came to where I was and found what would bring me to him. And that was through jujitsu. Yeah, and that's 100% because this had Anthony not had you know the connection doing what he was doing, I don't know that I would have changed my path that I was on. Um just because, you know, uh I was already kind of you know pretty late in life to start finding, you know, God and and all of that. And it just again, it just wasn't a part of my life growing up. Um so it wasn't so unfortunately on that same side is I didn't get to um expose my kids. Um I have three kids, um and uh so I didn't get them into church early on. Um but the neat part is now that my wife and I have been coming, uh our daughters, we have three, like I said, we have three, and I have um two daughters and a son, and my daughters uh will come to church now with us and and all. Uh my son lives out of state, but you know, hopefully he'll find God and find church and and find his path. That's right. All in God's timing.
SPEAKER_02:It's never too late. I think is the important part. You know, I was my testimony's back in there somewhere, but uh yeah, I was like 28, you know, I had run from God for many years, even though being around church, you know. But God runs us down and never too late, and then share with our families. And so awesome. Well, good to get to know kind of just how you guys got here. And for those who don't know, Gary and Gus have been uh very instrumental. And I know both of you guys are humble to where you'd say it's not all you. We have a great safety team, but you guys really help lead that. So maybe just kind of you know, how through coming to faith, you guys have come to be great servants here, uh, really through the safety team, using gifts for you know serving the Lord and working, you know, each Sunday. So guess maybe kind of talk about how, as you know, coming to faith, life house, church, you know, how that's kind of moved you. You know, you said over the last several years kind of feeling that responding. So how you kind of came to safety team, serving, working for the Lord, you know, what's that kind of prospect look like?
SPEAKER_00:Cops think in weird ways that a lot of people don't learn that just talking to you guys. Yeah, yeah. And it's just a perspective that you see of life. There's a complete culture world out there that a lot of people don't have, um, I guess for lack of a better term, the privilege to say. And one of those things is that when you're sitting in church, your cop mind is still running, and you're thinking, wow, if I was going to commit something or do something evil, this is a really good place to do it. Um, and I know I'm not the only cop to ever think that. And I'm sure many of them all across the United States had that same very thought. And this was never planned or coordinated. It's just kind of like, I don't know, if maybe Gary can step in on this too. It just Gary's starting to go to church. I'm going to this church, and all of a sudden, you know, ideas kind of started flowing. And Gary already had talked to um one of the elders, Mitch, about it. And before you knew it, this thing started to kind of grow. Um, and with the church's blessing, we've been allowed to have a safety team of you know made up of a lot of LEOs and retired LEOs that are willing to come every single weekend and listen to a sermon, but also serve for a sermon to make sure that everything's okay, that there's nothing going on. And I'll I'll I'll let Gary piggy piggyback on that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so the interesting story and and uh to be clear, um Jonathan and Robert are or the blue. I mean, Robert, what he Robert Acuff, what he does, you know, as far as keeping the schedules and keeping all that stuff, is we couldn't do it without him. And Jonathan brings all the institutional knowledge for Jonathan Bush. Jonathan Bush.
SPEAKER_02:If anybody wants to hear from him, we talked finances with him in in September, so you can go back and learn more about Jonathan.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so they they kept they were running the safety stuff and and doing a fantastic job um during that time and and how it came about for me. I had honestly wasn't looking to do that. Like I said, it was the church to me was new. Like I was just talking about how I, you know, just found faith and and was going. So when I was coming on Sundays, um I was coming solely for the word. You know, like I I just wanted to absorb everything and um you know, just listen to that. And and it's tough when you're coming from a law enforcement background to try to play in two different worlds. Um so you know, if I'm gonna look at things through a law enforcement lens, it changes a lot of dynamics for me. Um and like I said, now all of a sudden you're looking at exit points, you're looking at weak spots, you're looking at, you know, things that you might have to figure out how to address if something goes sideways on you. Um so my role came about when um talking to Keith Henry was they wanted to start to develop an SOP. The church was creating SOPs throughout different areas of the church, and he had uh asked me if I had any experience with SOPs um with law enforcement, because they were wanting to address some stuff with the safety team. And I said, uh, you know, I'm I'm pretty comfortable with SOPs. Gus and I have uh created many of them um back in the day, probably caused a few SOPs back in the day. We gotta do something about these guys.
SPEAKER_02:We need to need to present that's what I say. Uh we're not law enforcement, but I'm like every policy, there's somebody who screwed something up that we gotta create a policy for.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. A hundred percent. Um so that was the first foray was all right, yeah, I can help do that. And and then was like, hey, well, how's the training on such and such? Well, we don't have training. Um all right, well, we probably should, you know, and start and so at that point, then it was I was kind of starting into the the path of you know the safety team with just helping out with some guidance and that stuff, and then uh that just kind of opened up, hey, we could, you know, we've got some gaps and some things that if we could add more people, we can help supplement what Jonathan and and Robert have been doing for so long. Um so and that's kind of how we started to do that. You know, like like Gus said, you know, there was a lot of us uh with law enforcement experience, um which I guess I forgot to cover on my opening of my background. Um I went on in '91 to county police, retired in 2011. I served in uh pretty much all operations uh during my time. It was either patrol and detectives. Um that's pretty much my entire career. Um worked in the same units that Gus did, um, as well as uh burglary squad, uh major crimes. Um so I was very blessed with the career that I had in law enforcement because I got to work in every div every part of detectives. Um so you know, uh bringing a lot of those skill sets here and then seeing all the other officers that I knew or knew of, um, and then said, hey, you know, we could use some more bodies for here. And everybody that I would talk to were like, oh yeah, I'm in. Um so and this church was again very blessed with the amount of military, uh retired military, active duty, law enforcement, and and just people who just want to serve. Um, you know, so we were able to really supplement uh the team. And and like I said, you know, with Jonathan Robert kind of helping guide us throughout all of this and giving us the institutional knowledge and and things that they felt um needed to be strengthened, we were able to do. Um so so that's kind of where the path kind of led to onto the safety. It really wasn't you know coming here and saying, Oh, you need this, and let me just jump. It wasn't. It was it started slow with helping develop policy. Policy led to training, training led to finding other gaps that we needed to fill, and then we just you know filled the gaps. And like I said, you know, Gus being on the team with his uh experiences helps strengthen us. And like I said, the entire team, everybody on the team brings uh a ton of knowledge and experience uh to us. So it's it's really good.
SPEAKER_02:I would say too, kind of hearing you guys talk, the important thing is you weren't really looking, but God gave you a skill set, God equipped you in unique ways and opened the door for you to use the skills you had to serve and to work and uh be part of the church. You probably didn't come in here thinking, you know, oh I'm I'm a little you know, ELO, you know, I would I'm assuming that's ex-law enforcement for all the listeners out there and the SOPs as standing operating procedures.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_02:But uh seeing that door open.
SPEAKER_00:No, but you're absolutely right. Like and I'm we when I I was telling you in my intro, you know, for the longest time I was just coming to church on a Sunday checking off the box. I was, you know, kind of looking behind my shoulder, making sure everything was okay, but there's never any sort of formal training or SOP, anything like that done. And and what's wild about it is I guess Gary and I never talked about this. It's just kind of we were both put in the situation in the same place at the same time. And it's like this is not coincidence. Um and I would say it grew from that.
SPEAKER_02:God really opened the door and seeing like, hey, we have the skills, there's a need, like you said, with no coincidence. God calls us to bring those skill sets. I even, you know, as we're talking crazy things, I'm a former civil engineer, you know, now in ministry, but still, and I remember coming here and there was an issue with whether we put up a stoplight outside the church. And I'm like, who knew I would be using civil engineering to help my church, you know, family in terms of like dealing with stoplights and requirements. So, like, whatever God's equipped you to do, there are ways to serve and do the work of you know that in the ministry. Like, nobody should really come in here and be like, Yeah, I can't do anything or what my training is, you know, it has no relevance. So I think you guys are real testimony to that.
SPEAKER_00:And what you find, like when you talk about the body of the church, the more people you ask, the more things you find out. Oh, well, this guy's you know, he's you know, certified in first aid, and this guy's a certified nurse, and this is a combat veteran, and this, you know, the next thing you know, you've got this awesome team of you know, uh a mix of people that all have certain skills that can be applied here.
SPEAKER_02:Seeing how God brings the body together is always an amazing thing. So so maybe to share, you know, kind of as you guys have been serving in this capacity, how has that helped your faith strengthen, you know, how you see or are encouraged from it? You know, is it kind of like drudgery or is it a joy, you know, to share maybe your perspective as you've seen God use you in these ways and and to do that work?
SPEAKER_01:Well, for me, I would say that I what I the most enjoyment I get out of serving with doing what we're doing, uh especially on the safety team, is knowing that we're doing the best we can to make sure the flock is protected. Um, you know, and that when people come here to serve or to, you know, worship God and hear God's word, that they can do it, hopefully they're feeling safe inside there. Um because uh right now with the things that have been going on in the world, you know, where Christianity's been under attack and churches have been under attack, uh, you know, I could understand people having some anxiety, you know, coming in. Um and I'm I'm prayful that our presence, you know, with the you know, seeing the green church and seeing the way, you know, we're kind of spread out, that we're here to make sure that they're able to enjoy their time with God and and their word and and and everything that they want to do. And that's why we rotate in and out with what we do so we can also have that time um and do it. So it's you know for me that's uh that's the thing that brings me the most pleasure to do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and the sad part is that the you have to acknowledge that there is evil in the world. And you see these things happening on a weekly basis now. And it's not just targeting schools, it's targeting churches. Um and not of them unlike ours. So if it can happen in uh I forget the last one, uh Lincoln University, 45 minutes away, it can certainly happen in Middletown Delaware.
SPEAKER_02:Oh sure. Yeah, so so awesome that you guys have come and the work and the joy of you know, again, God giving you, you know, kind of a ministry and using your skills. So I would certainly encourage, as we have in in our last episode with Jelsea, you know, hey, if you're not serving, you know, talk to somebody, share your gifts. You know, there's tons of ways to plug in. But uh I do want to talk to you guys, share a little bit of your law enforcement experience. You know, again, we were as we were preparing for the episode, and there's so much that you guys have been through and sharing your face stories, you know, reflecting, you know, on years of of seeing God's hand and and just a lot of that work and even being in law enforcement, you know, biblically we see like we were talking about, like you are functioning in something that requires justice, that requires, you know, how you view things, how you encounter evil, you know, so much we could talk about, but maybe you know, Gus, if you want to kind of talk about reflecting on the work that you did, how you view that through a faith lens, how it kind of helped either strengthen your face or faith, or whatever you're willing to share. I know there's a lot of experiences, maybe either God's protection, you know, ways you were able to witness or deal with situations in your in your work.
SPEAKER_00:One of the the things that I I well I talk about had the being in the drug unit was probably the funnest thing I ever did. Uh being in child investigations was the most rewarding thing I ever did. Was there joy in it? Not really. Uh you're talking about investigations with abused children, um, dealing with accidents with children where they've passed away. Um and and I'll be honest, you know, coming into questioning, you know, like why would something like this happen? Um but trying to keep your faith and build on that becoming stronger through it. Um But there's there's definitely one story where I have this is back before the detective days where I was with a partner in a two-man car, and we're going on a you know, we're we're stopping cars and being aggressive, and we run a tag on a car that comes back, I think it was stolen. So we chase the thing, two people bail out. My partner chases his guy, I go to chase my guy, and he gets his guy. And for some reason, I don't know why. I was probably 24, 25 years old at the time because I was still in shape, I could run, I really didn't miss too many people. I stopped. I stopped right at the edge of a of a tree line and kind of let the guy go. I don't know why I stopped, it's just it's kind of unnatural for me to do. A couple days later, they end up identifying the suspect, they catch him, and they interview him, and they say, Well, the reason I ran was I had a gun. If the cop took one more step forward, I was gonna kill him. Um and that guy was me. And I don't really I haven't really shared that story with a lot of people, but you talk about checking your faith. Um, that was the time that, yeah, I was like, Thank you, God.
SPEAKER_02:Um no other explanation for that, right? None whatsoever. None whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00:Any other time you would have just plowed ahead and yeah, like like I said, I was, you know, in my youth of 24, 25 years, it was basically a continuation of college for me. So for me to just stop was a completely unnatural event that I wouldn't have done unless someone intervened on my behalf.
SPEAKER_02:And I know you touched on seeing a lot of challenging things, and you know, we could do a whole episode just on dealing with a lot of that, but also, like you said, what you saw, especially working with the kids, the opportunity to make a difference. I'm sure the challenges of you know working through the drugs and just seeing what that evil in sin will do, you know, seeing that firsthand. And it can be challenging, but you know, how that work is doing something to help others to defend the public, but maybe any other you know, kind of moments you would share or anything that how that work really impacted your faith?
SPEAKER_00:Uh there is definitely evil in the world. Um, but conversely, if there's evil in the world, there has to be good. Um, and that comes through you know, God and Jesus Christ. As I grew older, and I told you I was a guy on the Sundays who would check off the box, um, I came to realize that this is isn't a one-way street. I have to work on my relationship with God through Jesus. And the way to do that is come to church, pick up the Bible, start studying it, start reading it, and you're gonna start to find, oh, well, you know, this makes sense in the Old Testament, let's go back to the New Testament and check, oh, that makes sense, and you start making connections and then you start talking to other people, and they start educating you. Well, if you think that's interesting, read this. And before you know it, this book is is like your guide for life. Uh you look and hey, look, these people did this two, three thousand years ago, and we're still doing it here today, and we haven't learned anything from it. So we should read it and we should learn from it.
SPEAKER_02:And like you said, it's a relationship, it's not a religion. Uh, I say that frequently, people might get tired of hearing me say that, but it's like you said, and that relationship is something to grow. So, you know, even kind of reflecting, you know, you said kind of over time used to be more checking boxes, you know, not in a regretful standpoint, but how. That would have maybe helped you in earlier to build that relationship. And where I'm going is encouraging those, you know, who may not be there.
SPEAKER_00:There is regret because I wish I had been more faithful and more into the word and the Bible 10, 15, 20 years ago. Um, you talk about seeing evil. Maybe I could have directed people towards that. Um, maybe uh one of the things I struggle with is preaching the word to someone else. Um you don't want to take it and twist it into something that it's not. Um but I think as you study more and you learn more, you become more confident with it. Where I in the past I didn't have that confidence.
SPEAKER_02:And I would say, especially in law enforcement, you guys worked with a lot of people and the things you see, if you don't have faith, and that's really tough. And I know we hear, you know, I tried to go in the military, my eyes are too bad. That's a fun, fun fact. I was going in the Navy and they didn't like my eyesight. So but dealing with, you know, other people, like you see those things apart from Christ, how do you deal with those? So the opportunity to share that, you know, you hear a lot of depression and and difficulties in in that field. So I'm sure you could probably comment on how that would help and maybe those experiences you had, like you realized there was something else going on, new enough, but how your work could also minister to other people.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's just that you have the opportunity to come into a lot of contact with a lot of people that normally you won't see. Um, be it that homeless guy on the corner, uh the guy who's going through the drug addiction, or the girl who's out, you know, uh on the streets. Um you could have the ability to give the word to them and actually make a huge impact on them. I mean, like like I look at it now, man, if I could just go back, like how cool would it be to have some of these people uh six months down the road be a church getting baptized? And I missed out on that. But I'm making it up now, um, if that makes any sense.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so God has plans and timing, but yeah, we as Christians, we should have a little bit of FOMO, not from doing worldly things, but if we we want to be part of God's work in our last episode with uh Jelsey, we talked about like when you live it out in your work, you get to see God working, you get to be a front front and center with what God is doing in lives and be part of that. And so, yeah, if it's when we miss that opportunity to talk to someone, you know, God's in control, he'll work it out. But I missed out on the chance to be used by God. Not that it would that it would, you know, save me. I'm already saved, but to share that with other people. So that's good. But um, so Gary, maybe I know we'll we're we're tag teaming, maybe share kind of yeah, in your career, you know, ways that you've seen God work, you know, obviously jujitsu and those things bringing you here to Lifehouse and living out your faith. And but maybe just kind of talk about how you saw you know God working and and the work that you did and in light of your faith.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, uh, like Gus was touching on, um, when we're those of us in law enforcement, you know, guys and gals, um, reality is everybody that we're dealing with, when we for the most part, we're crossing paths with them, they're in the valley. You know, um, they're not calling us because they're sitting on the mountaintop enjoying.
SPEAKER_02:Just come hang out and let's have a picnic or something.
SPEAKER_01:There's a crisis going on, and and there was uh because of that, there was a lot of missed opportunity looking back on my career that we could have I could have provided better guidance other than saying, you know, here's your report, we're gonna lock them up and and all that, you know, as far as keeping everything just you know by the book, um, and by the book, the law book, not the Bible. Um, you know, where had I had God in my life during my career, um I a lot of my perspectives would have been completely different. Um and I fully suspect my interactions with a lot of people would have been different as well. Um I I would have loved him and been able to um share God's word, you know, when when people maybe needed to hear it. Um and and you know, so looking back, you know, I know that and throughout my career, you know, God was, you know, uh with me um throughout. Um I didn't realize it then. You know, I didn't realize how God was speaking to me in so many ways, um, but I was so focused on the world itself um that I just didn't wasn't listening, you know, and I wasn't paying attention. Um that's why, you know, I try to hit every Wednesday night, you know, whether it's Bible study, whatever it is to help educate myself on on understanding God's word and then applying it to my life now. It makes things so much easier. Uh and and when I put my struggles in God's hands, I I no longer have the you know uh the struggle. You know, I'm like you know, if this is meant to be, you know, it'll be. And if it's you know, if this is what God wants, God'll make it happen. Um so I'm able to kind of just hand that off um and and just do what I need to do, you know, by just staying faithful. Um so you know, I I my career would have been different the way I handled a lot of things internally with work. Um my personality would have been probably more forgiving. Um in law enforcement there's no room for mistakes. There isn't, you know. Um because if you screw up, someone's gets hurt, um you know, a victim doesn't get the services that they should have got, um, or you know, bad guy gets away. Um and you know, so you don't give God enough credit to help you discern making the right decisions and doing the right things, and and like Gus story about just suddenly stopping before he went into the woods. I and we were talking about before this. We would have given, like if I would have rolled up on scene afterwards and he's yeah, I just stopped, I I'd have given Gus a hard time. You know, I I would have busted his chops hard on on letting this guy get away. I mean, that's just kind of how we treated each other on the job is you know, we're rough on each other um because we demand the best. Um and anything less than that is gonna get uh a ribbing uh to say that. Um so uh like I said when looking back on on my entire career, um you know, God definitely was there the whole time um speaking to me. Yeah, even when I'm even when I was in the valley, not knowing that what that was, you know, there was a reason I went through some things um to help me grow. And all of that shaped who I was that led me here. And then I think that has made me so open to learning the word so much more now because of realizing how much God was with me for so long, um, and still is, not like it was a part-time thing. Um but now that I hear and see, I'm so attuned now to the world around me, but not looking at it through the lens of a worldly view, but from a godly view. So now when I hear somebody that might be struggling, I'm realizing, oh, you know what? God wanted me to hear that because I have the ability to help that person, you know, or I can help in that situation, you know, and and now I'm you know very attuned to uh serving others.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and like you say, God has timing and equips us. You know, we go through things so that we can, you know, warn others. Maybe, you know, for me, spending lots of time away from home and chasing career and those kind of things. Now I can tell everybody like, hey, don't do that, don't be who I was, you know, get this right early, and we're able to share others through the work that we've done and the relationships. I think, like you said, Gus, reaching so many people, talking to so many people, especially you know, having that career in law enforcement, there's a lot of people in the valleys, like you say. Like some of us are like, I don't even know around me is in the valley. You guys knew who was in the valley, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, so but even even to kind of piggyback on that, it's not even the people that you dealt with, it's your coworkers as well. You know, he's he's been a supervisor, I've been a supervisor, and you have subordinates that probably, like Gary said, hindsight being 2020, you know, instead of giving him a tongue lashing, I should have directed him towards the word. Or a lot of times, you know, when someone's not ready for a transfer or promotion, well, maybe it's because God knows you're not ready for a transfer or promotion. And that's universal, whether you're an engineer or a police officer, firefighter, nurse, whatever. Um and I wish I had more of that, which I'm kind of using now. You know, it's like, oh, maybe you're not getting it because you're not leading a straight life, you're not ready for this, you're not your maturity level's not there. There's other factors that God's saying maybe you need to, like you just said, get some reps, get some experience before you can go to the next level.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, to jump on that, because I had an experience um because I'm I'm still in law enforcement, um, and so I still uh interact with a lot of people uh in law enforcement, and I'm fortunate that even in my Bible study group, we have you know some guys in there that are relatively early on still in their law enforcement career, and sometimes when we had get together for Bible study, we end up talking about the job, you know, like there's something that they're struggling with. And you know, and I recall one situation where you know one of my buddies was struggling because he was there was a specific assignment he was really wanting to get, and uh he didn't get it, and and he was struggling with with understanding that. And we talked about wasn't maybe God could be protecting you too by not giving you the some of the things. There may be a reason uh that something didn't pan out, you know. So, but back in the day, I would have been exactly like he was. I would have been you know, analyzing everything, where did I make any mistakes and oh who did they pick, and you know, going through all this stuff instead of looking back and saying, hey, you know, what's God would want me to learn from here? Um what you know, God may be protecting me from something else, or can opening up a better door. Uh and down the road, uh, that's what turned out. I mean, it worked out very well for the person, but at that time, it you know, it was that struggle. Um, but like Gus just said, as a supervisor, that would have been a a much better way to approach somebody who didn't get the promotion, who didn't get the transfer into detectives or whatever it is that they were looking at to kind of put it under that lens versus, you know, saying, you know, something else that just wasn't godly. Right. Um, so so yeah. Awesome.
SPEAKER_02:So well, I know we could go on for hours. I know you guys probably got, man, with all the years' experience, how many stories? And I'll have to have you back just for like a war stories.
SPEAKER_00:I'd say we'll have the war story uh podcast. But definitely editing. Yeah, yeah, you better put a delay up button on this thing.
SPEAKER_02:Hope to get approval from the AG's office or the county police, you know, to write this book, you know, that you guys need to write with all the experiences. But you know, anything that would be on your heart to share, you know, how you approach your work. You guys shared a lot of great great lessons there and how you view promotions, how you view difficulties, how we view you know the work that we do or serving, just kind of any closing thoughts from your all's experience and and how you might uh encourage our listeners today.
SPEAKER_00:I have a couple. Um when it comes to serving, yeah, you get to meet other people with like interests, and you know, you build relationships based on that. But I think for me, especially lately, like when you when you when you join a life group, there there are some people here and we call them prayer warriors, but they are just when you have a question that you have a mentor that you can go to and ask, hey, I've been feeling this or I've been thinking about this, and they can relate you to the scripture, read the scripture, pray on it, and the next thing you know, it's like, oh, there's my answer. Uh it it's a it's a fantastic, wonderful thing, and that's one of the things I love about this church. You know, it it's it's Bible driven, and if you're looking for the answers, open the book and there it'll be.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, and getting into community, and especially like you said, that can happen when you serve because you're gonna find out a lot more. You serve with somebody, you learn about them, like, hey, we got to get in here and do this work and take care of these kids, or have the safety team or usher team or whatever your serving area, you're gonna talk to people, you're gonna meet people and you'll get to know them. I always said in my officiating, like I didn't really know somebody until I went and worked a game with them, you know. So, like you say, being in church, you're not really gonna know people till you serve, get in a group. And when you do, like it encourages God created us to walk together. So I think it's really good, you know, encouragement to get in, serve, do work, and you'll meet the people, you'll strengthen not only your relationship vertically with God, but you'll have those horizontal relationships that hey, other people who are willing to work are probably strong believers who you want to you know be talking to. Not that, you know, no offense, but Gus from 20 years ago just sat in a you know chair and yeah, it's true, it's very true. No offense taken.
SPEAKER_00:You know, that's why I say Nate, I I what's this all about? And well, start reading this. Like, ah, thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. That's really good. So yeah, uh the only thing I would you know like to piggyback on is that we can use people still on the safety team, you know, and 18 and older, one out, you know, we we we can absolutely use more people. Um one of my favorite verses, and and I'm still learning my way through the Bible. I'm still you know, I read it every day and I'm still trying to, so I sometimes I butcher, you know, I get or I'll mix a few up, but Isaiah 6, 8, I believe it's the one that send me. Here I am, send me. Who will go? Isaiah says here I am. Yeah, that's probably one of my most favorite. Like if I could get that on a shirt, I think I would have it on a shirt because uh, you know, it it's it's kind of how I feel in anything. If if if there's something I can do to make something better or to help, send me. Um I'm I'm in, I'm all in. Um and so, you know, we whether it is like you just touched ushers or any of the other areas of the church, we need people to you know step up and serve. I mean, you know, we can use it, even if it's once a month or once every couple of months, you know, every little bit helps the church, helps the body, and and ultimately helps Christ. And um, you know, we're we're all for that.
SPEAKER_02:God wants your availability. He doesn't necessarily he can give you the abilities, but he wants your availability, being willing, like you said, to to work, just to do whatever opportunity. And you know, we talked Chelsea last month is starting kids' ministry, start with a something small, you'll be amazed what God can do when you just take that step of obedience to just do some work, to be part of the work God is doing. And so then I guess in closing, too, the work that we do outside of a church day to day, you know, any kind of thoughts on. I think you guys shared a lot of good wisdom on how you can speak to others, you know, looking for opportunities, but any ways to look at our work redemptively in Christ and and things you might share, whether you're in law enforcement or or otherwise.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, there's always also other volunteer opportunities out there to do some things if even outside of church, like uh I'm involved with Special Olympics and my wife and I coach there, and that is such a a blessing to do and and just watch all those athletes just come and just enjoy life. You know, if if you're ever feeling down about things, hang out with with some Special Olympic athletes and and just see how they can just make everything so much better. Um, you know, just their outlook on everything. And um I think we miss a lot with you know, we get so caught up in in today's world and and the and the rat race of of trying to you know earn the dollar and chase the promotion and all of those things. We don't look and see what's really important. And and you know, you get back to you know what it is and and enjoying life and enjoying the small things. Um, we get focused on the big things when we probably should you know tighten things up a little bit and and look at what's really important.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and working in our communities, I think that's a great point, you know, not just your nine to five career, but you know, church is a great place to serve, but God calls us to be part of our community, seek the peace of our city. So whether it's Special Olympics or anything out there, you know, serving opportunities, our daily bread, we do some of that, but there's other areas you can volunteer and when you're doing those things. Well, why are you doing these things? Well, I'm doing it as working unto the Lord to serve my community to better. Those are great opportunities to be a witness as well.
SPEAKER_01:And by example, outside of, you know, it's you know, it's not a like you know, Gus was saying, yeah, I'd come on Sundays check the box type thing. No, I mean that that doesn't cut it. You know, yeah, you need to live it, breathe it, and and be it, um, and and be out in the world. And and when people are looking at you and looking at uh the happiness you have or the success you have and and attributing everything to your relationship with God, um, you know, you're you can spread the word even by example. You know, you don't have to be on this, you know, on the corner preaching things, if just live by example. You know, and do that. Get out there and let people see you and know who you are and and then know what you're about. Um so at least for me, that's that's the way I do it.
SPEAKER_02:Uh we talk when we work that way, it opens those opportunities to speak. Like if you speak but you don't live by example, like we've talked about a little bit this month, is if you're the laziest person in your workplace, that's not a good witness. You know, most people are like, ah, well, oh, what you believe? Yeah, I don't want that because you're a you're lazy and don't contribute. But if you, like you say, you are living that out, being an example in the community in your workplace, it's going to lead to those opportunities of, oh, why are you different? What is moving and motivating you?
SPEAKER_00:But you t you teed me up really nicely because I was going to talk about tithing. And and you you mentioned about you know chasing that dollar. And at the end of the day, we're this materialistic world and you're chasing that dollar for what? Um, you can take that money and go to charity. You know, do you do you have a business? Uh, can you convert some of that? You don't have to be, like you said, the person preaching on the corner. You don't know how you don't have to be the person, oh, here's a check for$10,000. You know, it if you can give, not time, but through financial assistance, that works as well.
SPEAKER_02:Um taking us back to we invest, you know, laying up treasure in heaven, our work is really about having that treasure that we give back to the Lord. I think that's kind of the point you're drawing out there that's really good as well. So cool. Well, guys, I know we could, like I say, we could do our set of record for our longest episode talking to you guys, but I do really appreciate the time. I know on behalf of the church, appreciate all you guys do. Uh, usually I was kind of saying this month is I know it's kind of like twisting your arm. You guys, like you say, wanting to give all the credit to the rest of the team, which is just exhibit A of good servant leadership, which Christ calls us to. But I do appreciate you guys sharing your stories, a little bit about you for the Life Talk family. Hopefully, if you see Gary and Gus, they'll probably be wearing a green shirt, you know, walking around the lobby. Make sure you let these guys, you know, you appreciate them and and the whole team, anybody wearing a green shirt, that uh they are here, you know, just in the world we live in to keep us safe. We trust in the Lord, but he calls us to uh be vigilant, to you know, be wise as serpents. So appreciate that you guys serve so well and just sharing some of your history and all you guys do here. So thanks again for taking the time. Oh, thank you. Yeah, thanks for having us. All right, and Life Talk Family, we will see you next time. Thanks for tuning in to the Life Talk Podcast. If this episode encouraged you, please be sure to like, comment, subscribe, and leave a review so others can find this content as well. And we'll look forward to seeing you next Monday for another great episode.
