LifeTalk Podcast

Love that Adopts

• LifeHouse Church • Season 6 • Episode 40

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What if the love you need isn’t a feeling at all? We sat down with Rob and Stephanie to unpack a winding adoption journey that began on mission trips and led to a Thai orphanage, a handful of miracles, and a daily practice of surrender. The story starts with simple compassion for children overseas, grows through years of closed doors and waiting, and arrives at a moment in Haiti when a small hand and a sharper question from God changed everything.

You’ll hear how “anchor moments” confirmed their path—an agency email from Bangkok, their daughter serving nearby, and an orphanage only a mile and a half away—culminating in a yes on a little girl’s seventh birthday. Bringing Mali home didn’t match the warm picture they imagined. Cerebral palsy wasn’t the biggest hurdle; navigating grief, fear, and rejection was. Stephanie speaks candidly about the trenches, the day she wrote “God, I hate this,” and the shift that came when she asked God to love through her instead of chasing feelings. That prayer marked the start of a steady, durable love that held when nothing else did.

This conversation is a field guide to agape: letting go of expectations, practicing surrender when comfort collapses, and remembering the gospel when love isn’t returned. We talk about how journaling anchors your memory, why joy is different from happiness, and how adoption mirrors the heart of God—He loved us when we resisted Him. If you’re discerning adoption, wrestling with a hard yes, or simply trying to love better at home, these stories and takeaways offer clarity and courage.

Listen, share with someone who needs hope, and if the message resonates, subscribe and leave a review to help others find the show.

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Intro music by Joey Blair

SPEAKER_02:

Well, what's up, Life Talk family? Welcome back to the Life Talk Podcast. Always great to be coming to you today. This is Nate, and we are in December. For those who were with us last week, Pastor Mark started the month off of We Love. And so I would encourage everybody, if you haven't listened to that episode, go check it out. But what we want to do this month, bring some great testimonies of what Christian love really looks like. And so today I am super excited to be joined by Rob and Stephanie Light. How are you guys doing today? Doing well.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we're doing good.

SPEAKER_02:

Man, you guys, I love getting couples on. It's pretty cool. Although we just never know what's going to happen when we get, and especially Rob. This will be an adventure for everybody. But uh, I think everybody may know uh the Life Life House family knows Rob. He is our uh worship pastor and his testimony man way back in the archives. When was that, Rob? Like 20, who knows? It's been a while, right? We may have to update it, do like a part two. Yeah, it was probably one of our first ones. I think it was.

SPEAKER_01:

So that was the most important. No, I'm just he was Rob Rob has a the barrel is empty, so they're like, hey Rob, can you share get on here?

SPEAKER_02:

So I definitely encourage those who haven't heard Rob's testimony. Uh you can go back and check that out. But Steph, first time rookie on on the Life Talk podcast. So just tell us a little bit about Steph so our listeners can get to know you a little bit and how you got tied in with this guy.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Or maybe he got tied in with me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

Amen.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. So I um, well, first of all, I was born and raised in Delaware and blessed. Native Delaware. Yes, yes. And I love it and I'm proud of it. And um I was blessed to be in a Christian home. My grandfather was the pastor of our church, went to a Christian school, and I loved it. Um, went to Liberty University for college, and I was only there for two years, but I met Rob there, and um we ended up singing on a team together. We traveled together, and you know, the rest is history. We ended up getting married, and but after that, we traveled for years with a missions organization. And um, but back up, I was I was saved when I was 13. So I grew up, I grew up uh in the church and everything, and for the longest time, I just knew that my Bible said I asked Jesus in my heart when I was five years old. So I went with that. But and I knew all the things, you know. And then finally at 13, I realized, wait, this this is supposed to be for me. Like this is a personal decision. And um, so I actually was saved at 13. And then obviously, you know, I was still so young, so God just, you know, was teaching me so much. And then really when I went away to college, um, is when I I really started experiencing the Lord. And it wasn't just my family's faith, but it was my personal faith. And I so many cool stories of the way God worked in my life and and led me and directed me and guided me, and um just seeing his hand tangibly in my life. It was it was amazing. And then then we met and uh got married in '99. And uh and then traveled and worked with a missions organization out of Virginia. Um really great years. And um, and actually that's also where Calling Levi was born out of. Um, we got to travel with Mark and Tammy, and but then at the end of that, we traveled for a year with an orphan choir, actually, um 23 different children from all over the world. And they were uh uh this organization we worked for provided for them and like supported them, supported their orphanages. And they came over to the states to kind of raise money. We would travel around. We lived in an RV. We did not have kids yet. And um, we traveled in an RV, went from church to church every weekend, stayed in hotels. And that um, I think I know we're gonna talk about adoption. That that for me and all the mission trips that we did, um, India, Philippines, China, Hong Kong, you know, a lot of different places, uh, seeing the orphans and and working with them is what really I think planted the seed in my heart for adoption.

SPEAKER_02:

So we're kind of seeing that early on, being exposed to the need, seeing the orphan. We know the Bible tells us the orphan and the widow, especially the most vulnerable. And certainly in our month of we love, you know, if you're going to love, you know, love requires sacrifice. We'll talk about that. I know that'll be part of your story, but especially to care for you know, people in those situations, like it's not gonna be easy, like it's going to be a big need. And so I think, yeah, seeing that. So maybe talk a little bit more about like what did you see in kind of those orphans or you know, just kind of how God was starting to plant those seeds in your heart.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, for me, I love kids. They they crack me up. I think they're so funny. And I just I loved being around the kids. And um, so when we would go overseas or we would go, I I know actually we Kirby and Letitia went on, Letitia's our children's uh director here, and they went on one of the trips with us and with Mark and Tammy. And I know that um we actually spent the night in an orphanage, all of us, Mark and Tammy too, I believe, and Rob, the guy slept over in the the kid, the boys' hostel, and we were in the girls, and I think for me, like it just hit me one night, and I didn't even have kids yet. I can't even imagine how I would have reacted after I had my own kids.

SPEAKER_00:

No way.

SPEAKER_03:

But I just remember, I mean, we were young and uh I don't even know if we were married. I don't think we were married yet, but um, I just remember sleeping in this literally in this orphanage with these kids, and they each had like one little mat, one little blanket, everything they owned, which was not very much at all, just was underneath their mat. But when we got into the room, Letitia and I shared a room. And when we got in there, they all, all the girls basically gave us all their blankets and piled up some of their mats on our beds. We slept on these wooden bunk beds. Um, it was an experience. I actually, I actually got laced from that experience. But I did not sleep good. I got I got very sick. And anyway, but I just remember laying there in the middle of the night. I could not sleep. And I mean, all these girls laying on the floor, and these were little kids, like down to like three years old, up to teenagers. And um, I just remember lying in the bed and looking down and being like, uh, there's this is they're not on a trip. We're on a trip. I'm uncomfortable for one night. This is their life. Like, and I just remember my heart. I mean, I'm probably gonna cry a lot tonight. I just remember my heart being like, Well, who tucks them in? Like, who who cares for them? And they did have caretakers, but there's so many of them. And for me, that night was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna adopt someday. And I wasn't, we weren't married. I didn't talk to him about it, but I just knew. I mean, that was so long ago, and it took us a while to finally get here. But um, that to me was a very big seed that was planted in my heart that night.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, no, and so yeah, for our listeners, Steph Telegraphing, today we will be, you know, especially talking about adoption. And I think like you hit, you know, the need for a parent, you know, and of course, just in our faith, like we know that we are adopted into the family of God and how then we live out that love. I think adoption is theology in the sense of, yeah, God had to adopt us, he had to save us, he had to bring us into his family. And so I think how you were kind of seeing that tie in and seeing those planted. And so toss it over to Rob. You know, maybe uh, you know, and my wife and I are on an adoption journey, uh, they say like there's a dragger and a drag e. How did uh Rob, were you the dragie in this, or how did God kind of work in your heart early on towards towards adoption?

SPEAKER_01:

I think um, you know, not to uh put all the guys in one in in one corner, but um like every guy I've ever met that is an adopted, that has adopted it's the wife first, right? Because we've got the plan. It seems like it's you know, I don't know, you know, you got the plan in in mind, you've got, you know, and I've learned early on not to have a three-year, five-year, ten-year plan because God always changes it. It's kind of funny how we think we're the boss of our own lives. I like to think that. Yeah. So um not so much that part, but you know, we're we're good. We're uh we have we have three kids, you know, everybody's healthy, everyone's, you know, you know, kids are doing well, um stability, you know, comfort. It's it's starting to settle down. And um yeah, I was drug into it.

SPEAKER_02:

So Steph first coming to you. I know. Yeah, I remember her hearing was very early, but I remember early on in our marriage, she would say something.

SPEAKER_01:

I would love to adopt a little Indian kid. Because we we've been there three times, and they're they're you know, like she said, you heard the story, so we just bonded. It's funny, you'll see a little uh still even to this day, I'll see a little Indian kid, and I want to uh it turn into a little creeper because I'm like, hey little guy, what's your name? But um, but yeah, we that's when God's gonna be a little bit more than get in the white van, kids. So yeah, so um, no, I'm sorry. But um, yeah, it's just uh she brought it in early, and I was thinking, I don't think I ever told her no initially, but I was thinking, you know, I'm I'm I'm young, I'm inexperienced, even a young growing Christian. So like my thought is why would you adopt when you you can have kids? You know, I understand if you can't have if you can't have a child, maybe something is going on um between you and your spouse and and uh you know medically that's it's not gonna happen. Yeah, that's a good opportunity to do it. So I really didn't think about it any other why would you adopt um when you can have your own kids. So so it really didn't um hit me um I mean my first missions trip I was in high school and so definitely my eyes were open to what the other world experiences. Um and then blessed, you know, went on um a couple other trips, and then when Steph came to Liberty, we went on a couple trips, and then with our missions organization we went every year. Went to Nepal uh one time, India three times, China, Philippines, Hong Kong, Brazil, it's just crazy good st good trips, and every trip God would show me something a little bit more. And I think maybe in the very beginning he was I know I know he was talking to me, but um now, but at the time I just didn't listen to it. So so so things are going good, and then all of a sudden out of nowhere she starts laying it on pretty thick.

SPEAKER_03:

And um Because God was laying it on thick.

SPEAKER_02:

This was about 2016, was that what you said?

SPEAKER_03:

Uh this was actually uh 2018 heading into 19.

SPEAKER_01:

He was he was getting and we we've we've got uh at the time we have um Jude was you know six-ish, yeah, five. And I'm thinking there was a big gap there because we were on the road and we just decided, hey, let's hold off. The bus isn't gonna fit any more kids. Um and in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, the the kids are starting to get in the high school. You try you s start to see the the end of the road as far as life with kids, and then we're talking about starting all over, you know. So almost like guys, if you're listening when she says, Let's have another baby, and you're like, Well, wait a minute. Same feeling, because you have everything, you have everything set and in order, and that's gonna mess up my selfish plan.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, very good. So well, Steph, maybe what kind of moved it to the forefront? How are you really feeling?

SPEAKER_03:

I just felt God, I I I can't really explain it other than it's all I could think about, and it was very heavy on my heart. But I also tend to, when I get an idea in my head, I think about it a lot and start like really like focusing on it. So I I would really pray, like, God, is this you or is this just me, you know, I'm getting sad because Jude's getting older now. But I knew really deep down it had been in my on my heart since before we ever even got married. So I I I would bring it up to him a lot. And so he was very briefly, I'll tell this, he was leaving to take Grace on her first mission trip with Lifehouse. They were going to Haiti. And um, she was actually 16, I remember, and um, or maybe 15. Anyway, um, they were getting ready to leave. And I don't know why I thought I should bring up, hey, we should really adopt. I feel very strongly about this, like when they're leaving that night after midnight for this trip.

SPEAKER_01:

It's very stressful. You're packing.

SPEAKER_03:

We got in a we got in pretty good arguments. Let's adopt right now, today. It was one of our probably our top arguments of our marriage. And I just remember being so upset and upset with myself too, just because you know, this was a big deal. Grace was going on her first mission trip, which completely like led her down a path with a heart for missions. And and I just remember after they left, I just remember crying and I just told God I was like, okay, I'm done. I'm not bringing this up ever again to Rob. So if this really is you, I need you to tell him. And if it's not, please take it off my heart because it's driving me crazy. It's all I can think about. And so I basically decided to fast and pray while he was away on this trip. And I did not bring it up to him. I didn't tell him I was doing it. I didn't tell anyone. And um, the it was getting stronger. And I was like, God, please, are you giving it to me more or what's happening? So, and literally, probably the first thing out of his mouth. They got in in the middle of the night and it was the next morning, and we were talking, and one of the first things out of his mouth was, Well, God told me we're supposed to adopt.

SPEAKER_01:

And I mean, he That's when I got back, or yeah, when you got back. Okay, I thought it was when I FaceTimed you from No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03:

You told me.

SPEAKER_01:

I kept it inside.

SPEAKER_03:

No, he was FaceTiming me with this adorable little boy that he kind of fell in love with over there, and and and Grace was with him, and they would just, you know, FaceTime and send pictures anyway. Basically that that day. And so that's when you know, we just hit the ground running and praying and seeking God. And and there is a whole long story with miracle after miracle, yeah. Um, I mean, insane miracles that God did. And I wrote it all down in my journal. And I mean, I would love to share it. If anybody is ever interested in hearing it, I would love to share it, but it's too long to share it today. But but overall in that journey, and and then I can skip ahead to when we got to Malie, but overall in that journey, you know, uh, God was tearing down pieces of wall in my heart. Like, and it took a while. And and you know, here I thought you were talking about love, and like it's really easy to see an adorable little child in need and feel love in your heart and compassion. And that's and we did. And so you think that's how it's gonna feel when you first adopt and when you bring this child home, and it's not the same because it's that's now this is your child, this is your responsibility, and your comfort is rocked. And and it really um, I wasn't prepared for that.

SPEAKER_02:

But I think too, so awesome that God brought you along, right? Sure. Anything you would share from that trip or kind of really how God spoke.

SPEAKER_01:

So I I think this trip was like my 14th missions trip and amazing. Like I said, every trip I learned something new. And um, you go on these missions trips. I know this isn't a missions plug, but if you ever have the opportunity, please do it. I know it's big, I know you gotta take vacation time, I know, and I know, I know, I know, but it's worth it. And you think you girt you're going over there to do something good, to put rice in a little kid's belly, or to to build a house for a family, or put a roof on for a church, and you're gonna do this and this and this every time. At least for me, when I've come back, I'm like, man, Rob, this this was this was good. Not for them, it was good for me. Because I get to, you know, see, I get to be reminded, I get to see what the ends of the earth look like and what we should be focused on. So anyway, we're over there and um we are it's pretty fresh, fresh off the plane. We you know, we get there and we're walking to our first event, and it's like a a community, church wide event. They're bringing all the community, and when anybody visits, the whole community comes out because it's something new, something different. They don't have the luxuries that we have. So anything that is out of the ordinary, they're interested, let's go. So we are walking to this church, dirt roads, and all of a sudden this this little hand grabs my hand and I look down and I'm like, hey, hey there. And um, yeah, I was just like it it that was easy for me. It's always been easy to love. Um, like Stephanie said, who doesn't love little kids? You know, um true love is loving them unconditionally. And it's easy to it's easy to love someone when they love you back.

SPEAKER_03:

Or without responsibility. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but man, um That's why grandparenting is great, right? Yeah, I'm so like.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, so I'm holding this hand, I'm like, okay, this is cool. And um not you know, we're we're just walking and um um God just speaks to my heart. So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, just a minute. Exactly. He he even talked my casual speaking voice. He goes, wait, wait, wait. So okay, so it's okay that I adopted you, my family, but it's not okay for you to adopt.

SPEAKER_02:

I was like, wow, some truth right there. Holy Spirit speaking to your heart.

SPEAKER_01:

And he came hard and and um I mean immediately uh the the white flag went up. I was like, you got you got me. You know, if if if I am a follower of Christ, um yeah, show me big boy. You know, so so that's when I gave up. And I was just like, yeah, it's not, man. I'm I'm such a jerk, I'm so selfish. And so um, so yeah, that's when it started, and then that whole trip was just solidifying it in my mind. And um, yeah, like I said, I can't remember when I told her, but I thought it was on the phone, but yeah, I probably just kept it inside because that's a big deal. So um, so yeah, made the decision, and then we started, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

The process. Yeah, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02:

But I don't want to leave. I mean, that's awesome, the Holy Spirit, and I would even just something you said about missions trips too, like in terms of love. Like you say, when you make that sacrifice, like a lot of people like, I don't want to do this, and I know we'll play adoption's bigger, but even just the mission trip of a few weeks, like it's you're sacrificing. But when you do, like you said, that's when it comes back. A lot of people are like when it works, I'll wait till I like really feel like it. And if you hadn't gone on that trip and seen all of those things along, then you know, where would God be in that? So it's a great story, but I also want to just taking mission trips is making a sacrifice, but it comes back to you in terms of what you get from it too.

SPEAKER_01:

So I I I believe he works when we surrender. Amen. That's so it's just bottom line.

SPEAKER_03:

And even that surrender to me is the it's literally like the the little golden key to everything in your walk with Christ because it's it you can't love without surrender. You can't you you can't do it, you can, but it's not gonna go very far. You know, the true love that we're talking about, the agape love, it it can only come with surrender. And yeah, I'm that's huge.

SPEAKER_02:

We have to experience God's love and give in to that and then allow that. Yeah, amazing. So so that's awesome. Yeah, I appreciate you guys being open and I know it's emotional, and yeah, but all in a good Way God working it alive. So that was, you know, like you said, 2019. So I know we probably can't do the whole, you know, it's been several years. I think the important part, like we feel called, and I mean, I know I can share my testimony in the sense of won't go into it, but like, all right, let's go, God, let's do this tomorrow, right? You know, but that's not always how God works. So maybe just I know it was several years, there were some ups and downs, anything, and kind of that waiting and how love is patient. You know, we know God's love is patient, but you guys had to be patient in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03:

We did, we were forced to be.

SPEAKER_02:

Talking a little bit about the journey, you know, a little bit overall, maybe.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, we definitely were very um, very excited. And even for him to be excited, it was just like, I don't know. I saw we just started moving. And I was like, I was like, okay, let's see, which well, uh first of all, we didn't know if we were gonna adopt from overseas or here, and we were fine with whatever. I fully believed that God knew who our child was going to be or who it was, and it was just our job to listen and to follow. And so we were we started immediately praying, God, is it local? Are we are are we doing international, domestic? You know, what is it? Please show us. And and I wasn't really getting a lot of answers. And anyway, I won't go into the story because there were two different boys that we really thought we were adopting, but God 100% led us to these boys. And now coming back around, He was using them in our hearts and in our lives to uh to break down walls, like I said, to take bricks out of this giant wall that and we didn't think we had it up. We were, we were like, Yeah, let's go, let's do this. And we did not realize the pride and the selfishness and the things that were in our heart that that he needed to get rid of first before we could even step into this, because then there was going to be even even deeper work that he had to do. So basically, you know, we thought we were good to go. And hey, we're ready, let's do this, we're gonna love this child and you know, all this stuff. And and looking back now, I just know that he had to do this deep work within us over this time of waiting. And and I mean, at one point, my faith was really rocked and to where I was face down on the floor one day and did not know what to think anymore. I I just I it was bad, it was dark, and but I needed to get there and I needed God to take me there and pull me back out just to show me that he was in this and and that he was gonna do this. We weren't gonna do this, he was gonna do it in us and through us. And um, so it was a long journey, 2019. We said this, yes, we were so excited, and and like I said, miracle after miracle, it's actually crazy the way he led us to these two different boys, which I also believe um not just for our sake, but for their sake. Uh Asa was the second boy that we thought we were adopting and we shared a lot about him. And here he's, you know, he was in this orphanage that, you know, nobody probably knew him. Obviously, nobody really from here probably knew him. And, you know, hundreds of people that we know because of social media and stuff are praying for him, and we're praying for him, and we're still praying for him. So now he has this, you know, Christian family that is praying over him and praying for him. And to me, that was really cool that God used that um in that way. But anyway, he finally um led us to Malie in another miraculous way, took us till 2023. We finally found her. Um, crazy, amazing story. And I won't go into it except for the fact that Grace was um just left for six months to go to Thailand on a mission trip. And she was there. And 11 days after she gets there, I get an email from our agency here in Delaware saying hello from Thailand. And they send me this file. First time in five years that they send me a file of a child, because we were still waiting. China shut down, just to make it clear, because of COVID, China shut down, which they're still shut down, unfortunately. Um, but we've decided to wait because of the way God brought us to that place. We knew it was him, and so we were just gonna wait. I didn't understand, you know, but and they're still shut down, by the way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And so uh 11 days after Grace gets there, I get this email from our agency from Wilmington, Delaware saying, you know, hello from Thailand. I'm like, what's going on? They send me this file. Grace called, I'm looking at this adorable little girl. Grace calls me 10 minutes later. Grace FaceTimes me because it's nighttime there. And I'm like, that's so crazy. You're calling the my agency literally just sent me a file of a little girl from Thailand, which Bangkok alone has 10 million people in it. So it's massive. And with New York City. Yeah, they email me back and I email them and said, Oh my goodness, my daughter is in Thailand for six months. And and I said, She's in Bangkok. Where are you guys? And they email back while I'm on the phone with Grace. Oh, that's crazy. That's where this little girl is. And they say the name of the orphanage she's at. While we're on FaceTime, Grace looks it up and it's a mile and a half away from her apartment. So at this point, I'm like, at this point, I'm like, okay, we didn't even, we didn't even need to pray about it. By that night, we emailed them back, said yes, find out it's her seventh birthday that we said, because it was the next day at this point for them, and um said yes to her on her seventh birthday. It also was Life House's anniversary. It was just a lot of really cool things, and God was very clear, and and we started that process. And um, that was 20 February of 23 and March of 24. We went over to get her. We were there for two and a half weeks. Um, a very difficult, very difficult trip.

SPEAKER_01:

So, so yeah, let me just give you some more context. Um, I know we're running out here, but um so with that with that adoption journey, there was all these ups and downs and brick walls, like with these children, right? These children that we felt God was leading us to. Um you know, chu-shu was no longer available, right? Yeah, some other family came in and you kind of sit in a queue. Once you've been a cu uh approved, you sit in a queue, you know. And then they just start going through the families, and it's you just you just pray that's you. And um, so that was a dead end. And then um with those boys, um, same thing. We were we were too far back in the queue. And so so there it's all this hope, hope, hope, happy, happy, boom, rock bottom, hope, hope, hope, happy, happy, boom, bottom. So this is now the fourth time we've gone through this, and so just to be honest, I'm just like, yeah, right, whatever. Yeah, we'll see. You know, you start to get a little the flesh starts to come out. Like, why are what are we doing? Like this. Maybe we miss this, maybe God really. What's going on? Yeah, so go ahead, sorry.

SPEAKER_03:

But I I think though the way God led us to them, he knows that we're hard-headed and stuff, so he had to use some pretty cool miracles to for us to not doubt. And to me, the one you continued to trust.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, and we would have never said in the beginning, we had and they ask you, they ask you, okay, what are the things that you're willing to deal with? So this child could be, you know, uh uh developed. Anything there could be all kinds of things. Or are mentally, you know, slow or delayed or physical or anything. And we had a specific, okay, we'll do this, this, and this.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, on paper, we were very open because, like I said, I believed God really knew who the child was, but at the same time, I was realizing through this process that I had an idea in my heart of what I wanted. And it has nothing to do with what you want. Just like love. It's not about you, it's just not about you. It isn't because it can't even come from you if it's going to be this agape love. It can't come from you. It has to come from God through you. That's that's all. I mean, that's definitely something I've learned. I thought I had all this love to give, and really all I had was a bunch of feelings, and it it's a lot more than you need a lot more than feelings. Agape love has nothing to do with feelings.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right.

SPEAKER_03:

And I we learned that very quickly. Um, I think, yeah, so we got along to this point where basically, you know, we God was anyway, we wouldn't have said yes. I can tell you right now if God presented us with Malik. Or no, not if God did. If we knew it was God, we would have, I'm sure. But if if I just casually got a file like that of a little girl, yeah, I wouldn't have we wouldn't have said yes because we would have thought, oh, we can't do that. We're not capable of it. Unequipped. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's um we're getting I'm getting old. I can't be carrying around.

SPEAKER_03:

Which is still the case.

SPEAKER_01:

But there's so many younger people out there, you know. Let's be fair to her. And you know, I don't want to be the grandpa 78 in the stands and she's playing whatever on the field.

SPEAKER_03:

But God, I do call that the way God revealed her to us, I call it our anchor moment. And I do believe it's important to listen for God's voice and and listen and watch for his moving because those are anchor moments that you can go back to, not if it gets hard, when it gets hard. And it's usually a daily thing. I never, ever, ever once, I was very sick in Thailand. I got I had 104 fever. All of a sudden, I just remember being at the at the orphanage, meeting her for the first time and feeling like I was gonna pass out because I felt so sick. And then I see this little girl walk around the corner with a walker, and I thought, what in the world are we doing? Like, I can't do this. And I but I never felt like we were making a mistake.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

I felt I felt fear, like I felt afraid. And I did not, I did not but thank the Lord. I never ever once thought we're making a mistake, we shouldn't be here. I never thought that. But I will tell you, I probably felt some of the most fear I've ever felt in an endeavor that we've done with the Lord. Or in any in any yes that we've said.

SPEAKER_02:

And we've done some crazy stuff. Yeah, yeah. RB living, or talked a little bit about that, mission trips, but yeah, uh yeah, really coming to that moment. So I think you talk about too just the ups and downs, God finally revealing, you know, just some cool confirmations in you know, the Thailand Association and and some different things. And so, yeah, you're you're coming to this moment. Maybe you just talk a little bit. Yeah, you get to that moment of fear, but just the confirmation and how kind of kind of work to this point.

SPEAKER_03:

So we get to the, you know, I'm at this point, I'm so excited to meet her. You know, when it was time to go over there, we were so excited. Her face is just it literally radiates joy, and all of her pictures radiated joy. Like, and so we we gave her, before we even met her, we gave her the name, the middle name Joy. We wanted to keep her name that she knew to be, which was Malie in the orphanage her whole life. And um, but basically, so because you're so excited, you think you're gonna still, and again, I think God allowed me to be so sick. So I I was at rock bottom and I just needed him because he knew I was gonna need him and my feelings weren't gonna be enough. So we're we're there, and I just remember right away, you know, she I described it just the other day talking to Rob. We were in the trenches and we were so deep in the trenches that and it was dark and it was messy, and and and I remember not being able to feel the compassion I felt for those little kids and when we slept in the orphanage in India because it was all about me. And I I could only feel how uncomfortable and afraid I I felt. And now looking back that we're out of the trenches, I mean it's hard, it's still hard, but on different levels. And I'm now looking back that we're out of it, I can look back at the pictures and I can rethink and I can really have compassion for her, trying to understand what she what in the world she must have been feeling, you know, when we were during this time. I can't even imagine. And uh so, but yeah, you think you're gonna feel this warm and fuzzy feeling that you feel when you go visit an orphanage or sleep, you know, in this place with these little precious children. And she was precious. It had nothing to do with her, it just had to do with our comfort and our, you know, like I said, our comfort was rocked. And um so uh when it wasn't feeling that way, then we start complaining or we start feeling like, oh, this, you know, this is so hard. And trust me, there were many times I I I do not like when I I'm not offended at all, but like at the hospital last year when she had her her surgery, or this year, uh, this lady was like, You're an angel. I was like, You have no idea. I am not an angel, but thank you. Like, because I know the feelings that I feel. Bottom line is I just remember one day, so really quickly, uh Malie struggled the most with me when she came home. I did not expect that at all.

SPEAKER_01:

She by the way, she has cerebral palsy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So yeah, we had our physical battles that we thought would be the big battle. Right. And really it was all emotional. And so she came home rightfully so. I mean, everything she knew was taken. Just the plane ride alone had to have been absolutely terrifying for her.

SPEAKER_01:

It was a it was a she was sick, pretty bad experience. Yeah. Um 30 hours of sickness.

SPEAKER_03:

I will say this though, as awful as it was, I had this peace. God gave me peace the whole time. It was pretty terrible, but he gave me this this deep peace. I can't really explain. It was it was cool. But anyway, we get home. She hated me. She absolutely hated me. I mean, to where she would give me dirty looks. I mean, well, I won't get into all of it, but there was no doubt about it. She did not like me. And I just remember one day, like, and it was so much work, all of it. And it was so new to us, you know, everything. Like I said, our our whole life was turned upside down. Um, but I just had the anchor moments from the Lord, but I also had this deep peace that he gave me. But also, I remember one day being in her room and she was just so angry at me, and I was trying to get her to calm down to take a nap, and like she just was so upset, and she kind of like threw this book towards me. I know she wasn't trying, but it hit my toe. It was a big book and it hit my toe and it hurt so bad. And I just remember sitting there and I just started sobbing, crying. And I remember I'm just sitting there and I just wrote in my phone on my notes, God, I hate this. And I I mean, I hated it. And I just thought, wow, you know, like you took us on this journey, and this girl hates me. I don't like this, I don't like how I feel. And I just I still have it in my notes. I hate this. And I just was honest, and I will say I just didn't look at her. I just sat there crying and I finally looked up and she was across the room just sitting there just staring at me. I think she was very like, and I just I told God in that moment because on paper, how do you love a little kid that hates you? That you know, you're you've sacrificed everything to bring her home and you've worked so hard, and you get zero, zero pleasure out of it. And we were getting zero pleasure out of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's not it's not like you're trying to love a brick wall, you're trying to love someone who hates your guts and feels somebody who's indifferent, but literally rebelling, yeah, pushing back against that love. I've heard the stories of you know, sometimes these kids are doing some crazy stuff, and you're just like, This is not only hard, this is impossible.

SPEAKER_02:

Like which reminds us of God's love. Exactly. I think that's the idea of the story. It all comes around that's how God sees us. Like God loved us and we were like his enemies and wanting nothing to do with it.

SPEAKER_01:

So just bringing that out of your story is like that reminder when I was in Haiti and God said, Wait, wait, wait, wait. So I've done all this for you. Yeah. You know, you are called to love. Like the number one fruit of the spirit, love.

SPEAKER_03:

Like But I will say, I got at that point, I had been trying to do it in my strength this whole time. I'd been trying to love her from these feelings. I kept trying to muster up these feelings that I had felt before in the past, even just looking at her pictures and the excitement that I had, and it wasn't working, and I didn't like it. And I told God I didn't like it. And I but then I then came the moment of surrender and I just said, God, because of this, because of how you brought us here, I do not doubt that we're where we're supposed to be. I don't like how I feel, I don't like this journey, but I want to honor you and I know that you call us to love, and I'm asking you to give me a love for her and to love her through me. And I'm not kidding. It it was miraculous. I can't explain it, but ever since that time, and it again, it was the surrender. I finally gave up. I stopped trying to do it in my own strength and I stopped trying to feel it. And I knew, and there are moments I don't feel, but that's with anybody you live with. You know, none of us are perfect, including myself. And I know that, you know, I'm not e the easiest to live with. And and basically, I just it it was amazing. I can't really describe it, but on paper, it made zero sense that I had this love for this girl. I could look at her while she was so angry at me. And and again, I won't go into some of the things just for her, you know, for her sake, some of the things that she would do. And and, you know, I I could look at her and have a deep love for her. That was God. It wasn't not me. That is agape love. And I praise God for it. And I I'm so thankful. And again, I still step in and get in the way of the agape love because my my pride or my selfishness. I I told my in-laws, I was like, this whole experience has been like a giant mirror to show us. It only shows us all the ugliness in us, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

This is who you are.

SPEAKER_03:

This is who you are. And it's it's very humbling, very, very humbling. But I can I can say agape love is is only possible through the Lord. I know people who have said, like, how do you do it? You know, people who understand adoption, how do you and I I have no explanation except for God. If you if you don't have a relationship with Him, I don't know how you can live. No, live in the depths of, yeah, any of us can live on the surface, but live in the depths. And down in those depths, with this agape love that He provides for us and that He loves through us, comes the joy. And it's joy that does not make sense. And I love God has taught me so much. I I don't think it's a coincidence that we thought of the name joy for her because He has He has shown me where joy actually comes from. Joy is not happiness, we know that. And it's it's this deep abiding, and and it can only come truly from the Lord. And so anyway, He it's a journey. I fail all the time. I fail every day, probably, I'm sure. And um, you know, but man, she she is joy, she really is, and she's amazing and she's hilarious, and God has uh by the way, I just need to say, she has finally my heart breaks for her now when I look back, and I think even in that room when I wrote down on my phone, I hate this. I literally now can look back and I don't see her as the problem or the enemy. I my heart completely breaks for her because I'm now I can see, like I said, I'm out of the trenches of my own messy feelings, and I'm able to see a little bit. I still won't fully understand until she's old enough to understand herself um what she must have been feeling. And it gives me compassion for her. And and uh, you know, she she had every reason and right to feel and act the way she was during that time. And um, but man, she's God has done a work already and and he is doing a work, and there's just no other way to go about it other than literally at the feet of Jesus asking him for every moment. But I can tell you that if you surrender and tell God, I want to honor you, I'm doing a terrible job at this. I need you to do it in me. He he does, and it's it's amazing. It's actually it's miraculous.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and even thinking, like you said, it's only through Christ and how often he had compassion for the lost and the dying of people who literally hated him, yet he said, Father, forgive them. You know, they don't know what they're doing. And so, yeah, when we face that, like you say, somebody she doesn't know what she's doing, and and like you said, you can even understand that more, and it helps us have that agape love, which is not possible because of our self-centeredness in so many ways. So well, Rob, anything you'd add? I know you guys are still on the journey, and it's the story is still being written, so it's God is still working, but yeah, just the process.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, yeah, we're in the we're a year and a half into it, and she's 180 night and day. I mean, physically, emotionally still struggles in every way, struggles for sure, but and even and like Stephanie said earlier on, we thought the cerebalsy would be the number one issue, and it just felt right to the bottom of the not a big deal anymore. So we've we we work around that. Um but yeah, she's grown in so many ways and I love you know looking back at the milestones. I'm so thankful that Stephanie's a journaler and she wrote down every little thing. So when you're in the in doubt, look back and see what God has has done. And that just builds your faith for the future, right? And um and even in James um talks about you know, consider your trials joy because that that brings strength as we as we work those those faith muscles, right? That builds our faith in the Lord. But yeah, I just you know, just responding to the love of Christ. Um my my favorite verse lately has just been Ephesians 3 18 where it says, Oh, that you would l know brothers, that you would know the love I have for you. So high, so deep, so wide. And um if we truly knew the love Jesus had for us, for me, for Rob, it wouldn't be a big deal to to do what we're trying to do. And we can't do it on our own on our own strength. It's it's gotta be from the Lord or it's not gonna work. Um I don't know if you've ever looked at the world and said, Man, I don't know how they they deal or if you've ever been to a funeral where the the family they don't know the Lord, but the the the one who's deceased didn't know the Lord, and you think, Man, there's no hope. Like, I don't know how they do that. It's the same way. Like, I don't know how people get by without the Lord because man, we need them every day, every second, and it's a daily lesson. And um, you know, um that's still a work in progress for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Amen to that. And why the gospel matters so much, and like I think, like you said, journaling, you know, just we can be so forgetful sometimes and can hinder our obedience, hinder our ability to love. It's that living the gospel every day. And I've been guilty of that too. Like, all right, I got the I view the gospel as like the beginning. Right, you know, it's like, oh okay, well, that was, you know, okay, a while ago I was saved, but no, that has to be every day what drives our love, the love that is inherent in the gospel, how much God loved us even when we were unlovable, you know, straight up. You know, that's that's just the truth. So you guys being able to live that out, even though, as you've admitted, not easy. You have to depend on the Lord. That's not gonna come from your own strength, but that journey, I like what you said, surrendering to God's love is what then allows us to unconditionally love. You know, it has to be that unconditional love that we all want. We want to experience that from the Lord, but then we don't want to give it out a lot of times because we are so selfish. But that's that true love. And yeah, we just as a society are missing this in a lot of ways because the love is love movements, all this other that's just a self-centered love, which is not exactly and I I think that we're we're looking for a feeling, and it's just not a feeling.

SPEAKER_03:

It isn't, it's an act, it's an action from from our hearts, you know, from the Lord. And I just think when we're looking for a feeling, then we're disappointed because we don't feel it and and we're struggling. And also when you're looking for a feeling, you're putting expectations on the person, the thing, whatever it is that you're hoping to feel this love for. You're putting these expectations on that or them. Um right.

SPEAKER_01:

And yeah, agape is is no expectations.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, at all. I mean, that that'd be like, you know, us being like, well, we it we're going to adopt you, but you're gonna need to get blonde hair first or blue eyes because that's what we have, or you're just whatever. You're gonna need to do this, this, this, but but we didn't, you know, we adopted her because we were called just like God, there were no expectations on us except for just surrender and and let him, you know, rescue us, save us. And and yeah, I just think um the whole expectation thing was huge. I didn't mention that earlier, but daily, like, and we do that, we do it with each other, we do it, you know, with our with our bio kids, like we we we put these expectations because you think, well, I want to be this person for you, I want to love you in this way, but I'm gonna need you to be this way before I can actually do it fully. And it just doesn't work like that. But releasing all expectations, surrendering to the Lord's love and allowing him to love through you. And it's it's like it works, but it takes us a while to get there. Even after, like you said, we forget, even after he's we've seen it, we've experienced it. I still wake up and uh I have all of a sudden I start with these expectations, these things that you know, because we look for feelings. We're all about feelings.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's just feelings, expectations, Robbie, you mentioned earlier our plans, you know, that we have that we think you know, our code.

SPEAKER_01:

It all comes down to I am selfish. Yeah, we are right.

SPEAKER_02:

It's the whole gospel of to get turned inside out because we're so focused on ourselves, either think we could do it ourselves, or we're so bad God couldn't save us, it's still a focus on ourselves. It has to get us outward and focused on the Lord. So well, I know we could go on for stories so much depth and so many ways, man. I'd love to spend a long time, but I would encourage our listeners. You know, we have such amazing stories, and just hopefully getting the idea of what true love, agape love, biblical, Christ-like love looks like through adoption. And admittedly, like we've talked about here, that's not something we do in our own power or do perfectly. It truly should bring us closer to the Lord. So really appreciate you guys sharing. I know it's a lot of tough moments and you know, shedding some tears, and again, it's still being written, but uh hopefully our listeners are encouraged. Uh Rob and Steph are faithful. Obviously, Rob's a worship pastor. Steph does a lot of our communications. I know they'd uh if you're feeling that call or or need some encouragement, I'm sure they'd both uh love to talk to you and uh we'd be willing to share more of their story. And you can even go back to Rob's testimonies in our archives, also the Cantalongos is a couple years ago, similar to stories, yeah. Yeah, so encourage anybody you know listening, check out that episode. It was a couple years ago. Um, it's just been a blessing, God working in his church here that a lot of people have uh walked that road. So we encourage one another in that. So well, thank you guys for sharing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_02:

Life Talk Family, thanks for joining us. Uh, continue with us in December. We'll have more stories of what love looks like in marriage and family and uh what that sacrificial love really looks like. So thanks for joining us and we'll see everybody next time. Thanks for tuning in to the Life Talk Podcast. If this episode encouraged you, please be sure to like, comment, subscribe, and leave a review so others can find this content as well. And we'll look forward to seeing you next Monday for another great episode.

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Jarvis Brennan

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