LifeTalk Podcast

Love With Intent; Marriage Without Masks

• LifeHouse Church • Season 6 • Episode 41

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If love feels slippery or one-sided, this conversation brings it down to earth. We sit with Chris and Kathy Daly, they learned in their marriage to trade performance, guilt, and quiet resentment for something sturdier: a Christ-shaped love that chooses, forgives, and serves even when the feelings lag. Their story doesn’t hide the hard parts—blended family tensions, baggage from previous marriages, and the temptation to keep a perfect mask—but it shows how faith and community can turn pain into purpose.

We walk through the moment their guard dropped at church and what changed when they realized love isn’t a mood but a decision. Kathy shares how freedom from shame unlocked the capacity to give and receive affection again. Chris frames marriage with the “triangle” model: as each spouse looks to Jesus, they naturally draw closer to each other. Together, they unpack the difference between selfish and selfless love, why pride blocks repair, and how practical encouragement fills your partner’s “bucket” so there’s actually something in reserve when conflict hits.

Forgiveness is the hinge in their approach. You’ll hear a simple but unforgettable exercise that makes bitterness feel as heavy as it is, and a freeing reminder to trust God’s justice rather than play judge. We also get into communication that actually works—naming expectations, speaking love languages, and asking questions like “How do you know I love you?” These aren’t big gestures; they’re daily investments that keep you off the “crazy cycle” and build a resilient, affectionate bond.

We also introduce Re:Engage, our 14-week marriage pathway at Lifehouse Church. Each spouse completes a weekly chapter on their own, then talks through it together before group, creating space for deep conversations that busy couples often skip. The result: shared vocabulary, honest testimony, and a safe community where isolation loses its grip. Whether you feel steady or stuck, there’s room to grow—and real people ready to walk with you.

If this resonated, subscribe, share it with a couple who needs hope, and leave a review so more listeners can find these conversations. Then tell us: what one loving action will you choose today?

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Intro music by Joey Blair

SPEAKER_05:

What's up, Life Talk family? Welcome back to the Life Talk Podcast. Always excited to be coming to you for another great episode. And today, continuing the couples theme that we've had recently, I'm joined by two very awesome guests, Chris and Kathy Daly. How are you guys today?

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, hey, Nate. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_05:

Got Chris, a repeat guest. Kathy, first time on the podcast. Welcome. Got a got a rookie. We had Steph last week. So bringing some new ladies on. So it's great to have you guys and uh looking forward to our conversation. Uh just knowing what I know about you all, I know it will be very impactful. But for our listeners, you know, we've been going through the month of December, which is we love and are faithfully different. And crazy, we are winding down the year. It is December, and man, where does the year go by? But uh we are finishing with the theme of we love. And uh today we're really going to talk a lot about marriage, just really how God's designed for marriage and why love matters so much. But before we get to that, uh just want to hear from our guests today and uh Chris. I looked it up in the archives, season four, episode four. I think it was June of 2023. We'll try to link that in the show notes. But uh any updates since then, Chris? How's life going?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, life is good. Life is good. Been plugged in with a lot of different things relative to uh marriage and and just relationships in general. So Kathy and I have been doing a lot of work with uh premarital stuff and postmarital stuff. So it's been really uh great to see how God's kind of taking those initial conversations we had back in season four uh and expanded on that. Uh just been teaching me quite a bit, teaching us both quite a bit, actually, on not only um God's just his magnificent love for that relationship model, but also his love for us as individuals and as a couple.

SPEAKER_05:

So absolutely. So definitely encourage listeners if you want to hear more about Chris, uh definitely go check that out. He's got a really amazing story uh just in the military, around the world, uh coming out of the Mormon church. And I know I think we'll even mention a little of that today, but uh very inspiring. And so thanks for taking the time back then. And I know it's some updates that we'll get to, but Kathy. So listeners may not know a whole lot about uh Kathy Daly. So kind of just tell us about Kathy growing up, coming to Christ, a little bit about yourself and what you'd like the listeners to know about Kathy's story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Um, so I would say I had a great childhood. Um grew up basically in the 70s. Um I have a brother, actually, I had two brothers. One passed away when I was 13 years old. Um, but I have a brother, mother, father, uh, my father since passed. But um we grew up in a typical middle class household. I didn't really realize until I was an adult that I probably grew up in somewhat of a dysfunctional family. I thought all of our families were basically the same. But I would say that our family we grew up void of any like relationship or emotions. You know, we didn't really like I never really heard I love you um much growing up. I didn't um you know, there was fighting in the family, like I would hear arguments in the family, but I never really heard much of approval things, although although I would say that my mother's my greatest fan. So she always, even today, provides me with um, she's my biggest cheerleader. But other than that, you know, nobody else really ever told me when I was doing good or anything like that. We did go to church. I was born and raised Lutheran. Um, it was the church my father grew up in, that's where we went.

SPEAKER_05:

Um and this was in New Jersey? No, this is Delaware.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm born and raised in Delaware. Um and I we went pretty frequently, definitely holidays, but on and off we went pretty frequently. Um, but you know, and I knew who Jesus was, but I didn't I only knew of him. I did not know him. I didn't know him until I was in my 30s actually, um, when Chris and I both were saved at the same time. But I got married to uh the boy that I met and dated and everything in college, um, and I married him. That only lasted about nine years when I chose to leave the marriage, um, and I married Chris. Um, and when we got married, um we both had been in previous marriages when we came together. And just um I think when we came together, it was great at the very beginning, and then it fell apart pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_00:

Started started a little bit of a decline.

SPEAKER_01:

But we were both kind of seeking something, and that's when an friend or somebody who worked with Chris kept asking us to go to church, and we or I didn't really want to go to church. Well, I wanted to go to church desperately, actually, but I didn't want to go to where I thought this church was.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a funny story. She cat Kathy kept hearing the term house church, and she didn't have context, so she thought that this person's house in that general area was the church, and she was emphatically refusing to sit through church in somebody's house. I thought that was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yes, until I found out this church was a massive church that we went to, but we went to it for the very first time. Uh I wanted to make sure when we went to it that nobody knew I was a visitor. I I just kind of wanted to roll in underneath. Um, so nobody knew anything about me. I didn't want anyone knowing anything about my business, my past behaviors, anything like that. So I told Chris, we can't park in visitors parking. We have to park all the way in the back. We walk in, we sit in the back. I don't want anybody to know we're there. And it just so happens when we walked in there, the guy who had talked us into coming had been telling people about us for months and months and months. They've been praying for us to come to church, which I didn't understand that when we first went in there. But all these people greeted us and it was horrific to me.

SPEAKER_00:

She was mortified.

SPEAKER_01:

I was. But we proceeded to to sit in the pew, and the pastor, the senior pastor of the church, felt like he spoke directly to us, and we we left there in a puddle, like we both broke down crying, sitting in the pew, realizing we were sinners that needed a savior. And he rarely ever did an altar call. I don't even know if I we went to that church from that day on for years. I don't recall him ever doing an altar call, but he did one that day. And that's when Chris and I realized we needed to give our life to Christ.

SPEAKER_05:

Amen. That's awesome together too. You know, that's a lot of story of that. Being prayed into the kingdom, people praying for you guys. Yeah, it's that's great. It's pretty incredible. Even though you didn't want to go. So the Holy Spirit clearly working.

SPEAKER_01:

God knew best.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's funny. I mean, we talk about it when we shared our testimony during the re-engage uh group as well, but uh the sailboat that we got married on a year before?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh no, no, months, only months before. Months before.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's September, yeah, that's right. Um, but the name of the boat was called the Soul Diversion. And we kind of, you know, didn't think about that for several, several years. All of a sudden we looked at the picture one day and realized there's a there's a corollary there.

SPEAKER_05:

Soul was gonna be diverted in a big way. Yes, indeed. So very cool. So you guys, and I know you shared kind of coming up maybe more in a transactional household, not really uh kind of that love that you mentioned, more of achievement, I guess.

SPEAKER_02:

Kind of your parents looking for that.

SPEAKER_05:

I think I'd heard you previously share, you know, your dad being very academic and and a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, very smart, but not very relational.

SPEAKER_05:

And so we carry a lot of those things, the definitions that we pick up from previous marriages from our families, you know, it's something we definitely see out in the world. So maybe, you know, you guys can kind of share and again turning towards marriage, married, come to Christ, you know, what are the things, you know, especially as you started to see changes in your marriage and understanding how needing to redefine some things and and kind of see how God's love plays out in marriage.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean, well, Kathy mentioned it earlier, right? That our marriage, even though it was great at first, started to degrade because it was all the habits of the old, the old us, right? The the I'll call it the selfish love versus the selfless love. Um and we and that's a learned attribute. I mean, it took us a long time to figure that out, at least it feels like a long time. We've been married a long time, so it took a while for us to get into a pattern of behavior where it felt like you know it was less about us as the individual. What do we get out of the relationship? What are we expecting from the relationship versus how how Christ views the marriage, which is how do you serve the other person? How do you selflessly give? How do you um show grace and show mercy when sometimes those are really hard things to show, especially in the relationship of a marriage, because you know, the you know the other person and the other person knows you better than anybody else on this planet.

SPEAKER_05:

Knows how to push each other's buttons. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I used to joke around, call it the chinks in the armor, where you could just slip in the the poking stick and just remind me that uh that that's a shortcoming. And and this is an individual please chime in, but you know all those uh areas that are rough, say still still in the work of sanctification. And it's very humbling. I I always say, yeah, they say God uses you to talk to me on a regular basis. And and he does, and I mean that in a serious way as well as joking sometimes, but um I he reveals a lot of things that need to change through my wife.

SPEAKER_01:

I think um the world teaches us that love is a feeling. You know, everything we read, everything we see on TV, the movies that we watch or whatever, love is a feeling. So, like for me, I grew up that love was a feeling, you know. And um, it wasn't until I became a Christian that I totally understood that love is a choice. It's not a feeling, it's a choice. You know, God made a choice, you know. John 3 16 tells us that God so loved the world he gave his only son. That's uh that for whoever believes in him will have eternal life. But he he made the choice to give his son. And so in marriage, when you understand what that true love is, that God, God's love, then you understand that you have to make a choice every day to love your spouse.

SPEAKER_05:

And not just a choice, but a choice to give and sacrificially, right? Yeah. Like you're talking about, Kathy, is getting outside of yourself, getting away from those feelings of well, when I feel it, then I'll give, or then I'll choose when the feelings move me rather than choosing in spite of feelings. And I think something you were saying too, Chris, like not only do we know those chinks, but a lot of times we see the worst of we give our spouse the worst of ourselves, right? Because we go around all day, we're happy at work and doing our job, and then we get home and we have like either no energy or we're annoyed from all the people, you know, and then a lot of times our spouse experiences that, unfortunately. And so we say the empty bucket, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean, that there's a book that talks about how you can pour into somebody their bucket, right? You take ladles and you're pouring in, pouring in compliments, positives, you know, the the accolades of why you love that individual. Um, and occasionally you say something that requires a ladle to be pulled out, or maybe you're speaking some truth in love that requires a ladle to be pulled out. Um, the bucket has to have water in it. So if you it's a balance, right? That's where you're going with that point. Yep. You got to be able to put stuff in to make a withdrawal.

SPEAKER_05:

We have to fill each other up in marriage. It's the purpose of marriage and a true love when we see each other, you know, either empty and we move towards, even when it may be hard. Like you say, it may be I don't want to make this choice. I'm tired too, but my spouse needs me. I'm going to, I think you used it earlier, Chris, serve our spouse in a in a way and in terms of getting outside of ourselves. So how did that process look for you guys? I know, like I say, you get married, you know, not believing, coming to faith, you know, the sanctification that we've mentioned, like how to really redefine were there any kind of critical moments or or just kind of ways over time that God helped you redefine that love of you know, kind of lack of it in your family, Kathy, and you know, seeing the feelings aspect that our culture defines it, how or maybe some times or ways that just within your own experience you saw that change.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I think in the beginning, it to Kathy's point earlier, it was bumpy because we had a blended family. So we had two little children under the age of, well, under the age of five, three, when we got to the city.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, they met at two. Yeah, two and a half.

SPEAKER_00:

And when we got married, they were five. Um so that was that was a big challenge for us because you know, parenting skills, different. Uh guilt. I don't want to speak for you, yeah. Feelings of guilt, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we came together in an unconventional way or really a sinful way, because we um, you know, I was married when I met Chris and had an affair with Chris and left my husband for Chris. And um so once we got married, I had guilt and shame terrible. I mean, I took it out on Chris after we got married every day probably, because I felt so guilty for what I had done. And it wasn't until I understood that Jesus took the guilt with the sin away that I was free of that guilt and shame. It wasn't really until then, which probably was a year or two or so after we got married, probably about that, that I could start seeing our relationship as one that we could please God, we could work towards to please God.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, and I think over the period of time that that Kathy's referring to, from that point forward, it's a continual work in progress. Um it it becomes easier the more focused we are on Christ. I mean, we we always you hear me talk about the triangle all the time, right? With with Jesus at the top and the with us looking at him, we just naturally draw closer to each other.

SPEAKER_01:

And that that's been basically the story of our of our Well, I think at first, first off, we didn't we wore a mask around everybody we knew. We didn't want anyone to know what our past was like. So they just thought we were just this happy little family, um, didn't know anything about our past, and we wouldn't share anything about our past. But God kept revealing to us that you know what, you need to rip off the scab in order to tell your story. And your story is what's gonna help other people. So once we started doing that in helping couples that were going through difficult challenges in their marriage and us sharing what we went through, that's when our marriage started to transform.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And and it wasn't up to us to select who were that who or when or where God would ultimately put people in front of us and cause us to share. Yeah, we didn't want to share. That was a door we were very reluctant to walk through for obvious reasons, what Kathy said. It was you know, something to be we were ashamed of our behavior prior to that. And um, yeah, you know, like I said, nothing, whatever the enemy intends for evil, God turns it to good.

SPEAKER_05:

So it's well, and I think something you said, Kathy, too, that's so important in relation to love. Freedom from the guilt, but now freedom to love in a different way. I mean, we're not when we're shackled to sin, you know, the focus is on ourself, the guilt, that inward focus. It takes Christ to turn us inside out so that we are now free to. You know, too many people want, oh, I want freedom from rules and regs and whatever, but what are you free to do? And that's something that's so significant in coming to Christ is now we are free to actually love other people in a self-sacrificial way and not expect anything in return. You know, when you don't know Christ, I'm shackled by like, oh, if I love you, you better love me back, or the feelings. I better get some feelings out of this, or I better get something coming back my way, which is really enslaving, right? Because you're only going to act in such a way as to get exactly. But when we're free too, this is free. I can just love and pour out that same love that we've experienced through Christ. Like such an important theme in marriage, you know, that we've kind of talked about. Sounds like that really started to play out. Like you say, it's not a light switch, unfortunately. I wish it was, right? You know, I mean salvation weirdness, but sanctification slowly comes up. But but yeah, and when we tell our story, I think we talk about this a lot in marriage. And when you know you mentioned re-engage, Chris, which I'll kind of mention that at the end too, but so much the lie of Satan is we're the only ones, right? Like what you guys were dealing with. Like, we can't tell our story because everybody else is in. Good shape, and we're not, so we better not talk about it. But we learn, you know, like we've all been through things in marriage. We're all broken people, so being able to share our story is so critical to encouraging and that freedom to share our story in a way that hey, I'm I'm not shackled to that guilt, so I'm free to now share this in an encouraging way, I would say.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you'd be surprised how many people we talk to who other couples who who just think everybody else isn't having these problems. And it's it's kind of a blessing that we've been down that path. I mean, it was rough when you're going through it, but be able to take it and and feed into someone or pour into an individual or a couple to remind them that you're not you're not alone. You know, that's the enemy's lie, back to your point, eh, right? He just wants to make you think you're on an island. Don't tell anybody it's all you.

SPEAKER_01:

Um but and you're only in the valley for a while. Yeah. You get to the mountaintop.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. So it's uh yeah, it's a process.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would say I know you might talk about engage, re-engage a little bit later or whatever, but one of the biggest things I feel is an advantage of the re-engage are the testimonies. Because that's where groups of people get to hear, you know, you see people and you think, like you said, they have it all together. And then you hear their stories and you see how God's worked in their life. It's pretty amazing to sit there and be a witness to listening to somebody's testimony. And then when you share in the groups, people realize they're not the only ones in the situation. That's that's the beauty of the the group setting of re-engage.

SPEAKER_05:

And I think that's probably why, you know, maybe you can kind of share where God moved you to kind of start helping other couples. And I think that's why we never say counseling is bad, right? So I don't I want to make sure to be up front. We're not saying don't do counseling, but a lot of times if you're just going to counseling by yourselves as a couple couple where you don't have somebody like you all, just a counselor who's there listening, you can get stuck in that too. Like it's just us and we got to figure this out. So exactly like you say, and we'll talk a little bit more about you know, re-engage the purpose. But when we're together and we're encouraging each other, and you know, I've had so many people where I'll talk to them and just share things going on in my marriage, and they're like, Oh, but you know, I thought you guys were like this perfect couple of them. Not at all. And if my wife is listening to this, sometimes she listens and I say this, I've said it repeatedly. Like, if I had a dollar for every time we would have struggles or arguments, and she'd say, We're the only ones who are dealing with this. And I'm like, Well, that's a lie. You know, like I haven't been in ministry that long, but talking to enough people, like we're all dealing with things because we're all sinners and we're all working through the sanctification and why God brings us into community. What I love is really expressed, like you say, in groups, in sharing, in encouraging one another, and how that plays out in marriage. So, yeah, maybe you guys can talk a little bit about you know how God's moved you to really be, like you said, premarital, postmarital, pouring into marriages, taking your story and encouraging other people, which is a I would say a loving thing to do, right? It's hard, like you say, it's pulling off the scab, it's not comfortable. We don't like necessarily having to, you know, say all those things, but how God's kind of really worked in you guys that way.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it started when we actually um became Christian. We jumped right in. We we felt the urge to serve right away, and we jumped in actually into children's ministry. We jumped into the ages of our kids, and we actually worked in children's ministry all the way up as our kids went through children's ministry. Through college, through college, and we did college groups, we would have them at our house and stuff, and it really wasn't until those college kids started getting married that we then started they c they actually came to us looking for advice. And so we started getting involved in working with premarried and ones that have just yeah, just gotten married, giving them advice, and we loved it. And and we started then sharing with them a little bit of our background and kind of what we can tell you is what not to do. That's right. So you know, don't make these mistakes, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

And and that was like the beginning of the premarital, early marriage stuff. But as I started, I was plugged into men's ministry, as you know, it back in the day. And a lot of opportunities would come up where just guys were struggling in their marriage for a number of reasons, whether the whatever the sinful behavior was, or the addiction, or just the misunderstanding, and not being able to um love openly the way that we're talking about. Um that started to to really highlight that there was a need for not just the individual, you know, woman-to-woman, man-to-man counseling, but a a solid biblical perspective of marriage from a couple who has been there, done that, and had victory over it, praise God, for having a relationship that is is honoring him and and and satisfying, happy relationship. I mean, you know what? Obviously, we don't want to come off as perfect. We have our moments as well where you know we can disagree. But we, as I tell the couples that we meet with, you should always be with somebody who you can argue well with because disagreement and conflict is gonna come, it has to for a healthy dynamic in the relationship. We're all not like you know, identical to one another. But being able to resolve that conflict in a God-honoring way, is uh that and communication are two of the hugest components.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if you yeah, I agree. Yep.

SPEAKER_05:

And how do you see love really play into some of that conflict resolution, that understanding versus misunderstanding we kind of alluded to? How do you see that play out where we have a misconception of love, either self-centered or feeling-centered, or uh whatever the case may be? How do you kind of end up seeing that break up marriages when we get it wrong?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I I mean, I think pride plays a lot into some of the challenges with being able to love somebody the way you want to be loved. If you if you give, you know, it may not come back right away, but it at some point you should start to see something easing up in the relationship. Um and even if it doesn't, then God's teaching you something, teaching the other person something. That's a sanctification process. But I think uh you know, just being able to understand what your spouse needs and seeking to s to help them first. That that should be the selfless act of love. I mean, Christ kind of lived that out for us as a perfect example, but that's how we even know what love is, right?

SPEAKER_05:

I think it's biblically we don't even know what this looks like if God doesn't show it to us because just in our natural sinful state, you know, we just focus on ourselves, you know, we're just trying to and the world twists it to Kathy's point, right?

SPEAKER_00:

The world's got a different definition of what love is.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think in marriage though, there's love and there's also forgiveness. And I think um if you know we at times will work with couples who are having challenging have a challenging marriage. And I think one of the things that holds them back is the act of forgiveness. Like they can't forgive one another for whatever they need to forgive one another and get past that enough to then let that relationship start to repair. I think that's tough. Forgiveness.

SPEAKER_00:

We use an exercise with some of the couples where we give them a 10-pound weight and hold it up in their hand and just hold on to that anger for your spouse as long as you can and see how tiring that becomes. And and it it's a it's a real physical representation of the weight or the burden of back to your point, unforgiveness. And if you think about it, it's usually something I I don't want to underplay anybody's struggles, but some most times it's not it's not really important enough to hold on to that. It's it's really not. It's more damaging and unhealthy than anything else. And and we learn when we when we can offer forgiveness and we learn to love more effectively.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, when we understand what forgiveness is, you know, I mean what what Christ did for us, yes, and how God forgave us, um how can we not forgive?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. That's exactly where I was gonna go with that is forgiveness and love are you know, when we look at God's love for us, involved his sacrifice so that we could be forgiven, you know, had to have that. And I know we could play out, you know, the whole, and again, we'll talk a little bit at the end in kind of the program, but then forgiveness involves that kind of change and making amends. But it starts with forgiveness. You know, there can't be that expectation or focusing on have to get something back. Like, no, we have to forgive in love. You know, it's because of the thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Regardless of whether we get anything from that person. I mean, we're just called to forgive regardless.

SPEAKER_00:

Wasn't there something during the re-engage program that you kind of drew some Do you mean the circle? No, the circle. It was around forgiveness and and like turning it over to God to let God's justice system and and sanctification process work that way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that should be free. I mean, when we think about forgiving for an somebody, forgiving our spouse for an act of sin that they've done or yeah, committed, then it's just knowing that God is the one that um is the judge in all of that. You don't have to to be the judge, it's actually freeing to be able to forgive.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because then you're done.

SPEAKER_05:

Just like that weight you were mentioning holding up. And I've heard that unfortunately in a few limited you guys have more experience than I do, but a few situations where a wife would say something like to the effect of I can't forgive him for this, and kind of more fully understanding love and those uh in that situation, I'd be like, Well, if that is true, like you're your your marriage is over, like you're not gonna survive that kind of unforgiveness, which is a withholding of love. Like if you're not willing to forgive, you're withholding that self-sacrification. You're making a choice not to lay that aside, I would say. Let me know if you disagree with that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And and I lived through it when I made some very poor choices and took some very poor actions that that almost cost us our marriage. Um, but Kathy again demonstrated well, it it could have, I should say. Yeah. Um and should have, in context of the the sinful aspect of it. But again, Kathy showed grace and forgiveness, and uh that that actually showed me a lot and taught me a lot about the level of our relationship and the dynamic that she can show me through the the act of grace and forgiveness, and that that was that was pretty impactful.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

It was really display, those are the times we have to live it out, right? You know, I've been through that in my marriage too, where it came to a point of like, yeah, you know, we put it on the table and it's like, but I'm not perfect. And if if we're really honest about it, you know, like if I'd have been a perfect husband, maybe that doesn't happen, or you know, vice versa, you know. So a lot of times, you know, and again, kind of we keep mentioning it and go into it, but like, you know, and re-engage, week two, you're you're a broken person, you gotta draw the circle around yourself and like focus on what you can fix because you know, hold up the mirror and see how that looks sometimes when you really think about, you know, have you been loving? Have you been unconditionally loving? And most of the time the answer is no, you know, and I think you mentioned the triangle earlier, like if your relationship with God, you're not understanding that love, yeah. It's gonna play out in your marriage, ultimately, all of your relationships, but especially your marriage marriage, I would say.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's um there's a lot of opportunity there for couples to to understand how to speak to their spouse. And I'm and I'm not just talking about verbal, I mean the whole picture, right? What what is it that my my spouse needs to be uplifted? What are their love languages? What are um what are the things that they need to feel for me? And how do they see Christ through how I'm responding to them? And I think that's uh that's one of the things that lately has been really evident to me in in relationships, is how do I, as the husband, how do I emulate Christ so that Kathy sees Christ through me and not just again our marriage, but everything that I do and say, whether it's helping somebody across the street shovel their driveway or or something, anything. I mean, it could be the laundry list of things, but that she sees that living out in real life.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

So I think maybe kind of bringing it to, you know, a kind of summary, you know, what are the biggest takeaways you would say, especially in your experience, you know, how really marriage and love have to, we were joking when we were setting this up, right? Love and marriage. They go together like a horse in courage, right? You know, old song. Don't ask me to sing that. Uh no, we're not singing on the podcast. I that we leave that to Rob and the worship team. No singing here. I'll talk. But but yeah, maybe just kind of share, you know, how you would kind of encourage anybody who's listening, whether married in a good place, not a good place, uh, how how you guys would encourage everyone listening with that. Maybe not married yet, but what they need to get right going in, you know, kind of mentioned going in with the wrong ideas.

SPEAKER_00:

Wanna start? Go ahead. Okay. Um, well, yeah, I think you know, God is a reminder, God is bigger than any problem that you might run into as a married couple. I know it doesn't feel like that at times. Uh there can be moments during a relationship where, you know, we've talked to couples where they're in some pretty dark spots. Um, and we were in one of those dark spots on a couple of occasions. But like I said, God is is bigger than all of that. And we just have to put our trust and faith that He's gonna put people in our path to help us out when when we need it. Um and and just again being open to to receive information, to receive guidance, to receive that prayer uh and into their lives as a as a married couple, so that they're they're getting wise counsel. Don't listen to the world, listen to to the Holy Spirit, listen to the people that God puts around you to to make those decisions. But I mean love love is very perverted in the world. It's a very broken over to use your word, it's an overused word, um, and nobody really knows what it is and outside that biblical context. So I my suggestion would be anchor yourself in the word, anchor yourself with biblical counseling if you're in need of it. Premarital during the marriage, or even I mean, we have divorce care and other things, unfortunately, those things still happen in the world and in the church. Um but there's there's a lesson to be learned there. God, God doesn't let anything go to waste as we've both lived through.

SPEAKER_01:

I think um too, Nate, you brought up community. Community is so important. Um I I really think that a marriage, a marriage can be really good just the two of you, but it can be outstanding when you have other couples that are pouring into you or you're pouring into them. They're holding you accountable, they're helping you see blind spots that you might have, things, things like that. I think community is just really important to help couples just continue to love each other sacrificially. I just think community is just really important. But forgiveness and love go together.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's the part I think that's the part that we enjoy the most about the ministry aspect that we participate in. Being able to pour into these couples and to share our stories and to help them. I mean, we genuinely love these couples we meet. I mean it it breaks our heart to see some of the things that sometimes some couples struggle with. But we we know that like I said, we serve a God who's bigger than those problems. We just pray him over it.

SPEAKER_05:

The the width, the depth, the height, the length of God's love can overcome if we allow that to dictate our marriages. And no, I love the community aspect too, because something we've kind of talked about with you know, the lies that Satan will say of it's only you, which makes you want to isolate, right? Like, well, I can't be around these other couples because we don't fit in, because they they're in good and we're not. And like, no, when we come together, we encourage each other, you know, in those kind of ways of like, well, yeah, we we dealt with that a while ago, or we're dealing with that too, and let's talk about it, let's be honest about these things. And that's a loving thing to do, you know. We've kind of talked about that, what you guys do. It's a sacrifice to step into other people's situations, to care for them, to take time to pour into them. So that's something, you know, when people have done that for us, how can we not, you know, pay that forward and continue in community to help each other? So and I think that's a good segue. Uh, we are excited, man. We've been dropping hints all episode. Uh, you know, we are in December, but something we're excited heading into 2026. Um, we've been piloting a program, so we're excited we're going to be starting a marriage ministry here at Lifehouse Church. You know, specifically, whether you're a Lifehouse member, you're in the MOT area, uh, and just Chris and Kathy out of heart. Uh, my wife Ashley and I do, many other couples here as well. Like you said, being in community to uh launch this ministry. It's called Reengage. It's a great program. Maybe you guys can comment. You know, I think the advantages, like you said, the group aspect of it. It's a 14-week program that covers a lot of ground. Uh maybe just kind of talk about how these programs, you know, they're not silver bullets, they require work, but how putting that effort into your marriage is really related to love. So maybe you guys can kind of give your thoughts or encouragement, something uh for the Lifehouse family, keep a lookout. But if you are in looking to improve your marriage, like I say, we're never perfect, so always something to be working on. So I'd love to hear your thoughts as well.

SPEAKER_01:

I think I love the re-engage program. Um, what I think the audience needs to know is well, or they are already do know if they're in a marriage, is marriage takes work. I mean, we work on our we have to work on our marriage and continue to work on our marriage. It's um it's just needs care and feeding all the time. What I like about re-engage is every week there's a chapter, and the requirement of re-engage was for the wife to work through the chapter separately from the husband, but then they were to come together and talk about their answers to the questions and the chapter before we met as a group, which I don't know that any program you do that where you talk. one another about your stuff before you actually come to the group together. I thought it was eye-opening that all these couples that we were in group with all worked with one another ahead of time and then they shared perspective about what that looked like them working together, talking through the the questions together. I thought that was awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I agree. The material was really good. And um it was applicable on a lot of different levels. And I like how back to Kathy's point how it I wouldn't say it forced the work to be done ahead of time, but it it did make you have conversations about things that you know like there were a couple of topics we got onto were like I didn't I didn't know if that upset you.

SPEAKER_01:

So hey put that put that down.

SPEAKER_00:

I think we joked the first meeting we said oh we almost got divorced over that way yeah it was I wasn't that extreme but it was definitely eye-opening because it you know makes you verbalize things that are like just assumptions or truths to your marriage and I think that questioned a few things there. But yeah good material uh good conversations I think in the beginning to your point it's always a little awkward everybody's kind of like you know deer in the headlights um but as we went through the testimonies that were shared some of the the couples that shared that that raw testimony in some cases um people became transparent yeah I think that really get give people an opportunity to say okay I can I can talk about some of these a safe space right while dealing with this and some things you guys brought out I would reiterate too so much in marriage in our culture and society we get so busy too like we don't have these deep conversations.

SPEAKER_05:

What I love about the program is like it forced you like you say individually to be in respective and then also to have a deep conversation. I mean too often in marriage you know and guilty gets charged here like we're just worried about oh you know you got to get stuff at the store what's the schedule you know when we got to be here when we got to be there rather than let's talk about why do we have the expectations of each other we do. You know we talk about growing up you know what you saw in your home and that's what we carry into marriage and a lot of times we don't even think about that or why do we communicate have the communication issues that we do. I don't know I'll text you later we'll find out so exactly right so forgiveness like you mentioned like these are things that we just need to have conversations about a lot of couples haven't you know and again speaking from my experience didn't really do good premarital counseling so a lot of the stuff we hadn't dug out and so it's beneficial.

SPEAKER_01:

I and just like a question how do I or like Chris how do you know that I love you you know and and hearing what he has to say well I know you love me when you do this kind of oh okay you know it's just a question like that that you don't even you just assume that they know what they need to do in order for you to feel loved.

SPEAKER_00:

That goes back to Nate's point around communication.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah I mean that's love languages, all those kind of things but if we don't provognize and talk about these things we miss it. We start to have misplaced expectations and and then that lowers our commitment and yeah it's a it's uh it's a cycle.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean there's a great book by Eggriches which I'm sure you know with love and respect where he talks about the crazy cycle and just keep getting back on it. And yeah that's uh it's it's it can be avoided with a little bit of work. Back to Kathy's point. Marriage is hard work. It's like if if your marriage was let's say you've got a house that's your biggest physical asset. You take care of it you make sure the roof isn't leaking the walls aren't cracked the doors the windows are working your marriage is much more important and worth much much more than your house. So what are you going to invest in that?

SPEAKER_05:

Investing right I think it was the the last chapter right like you need to be continually investing. And the day you get kind of lazy about it is the day the cracks are going to appear and things life's gonna start to get in the way and Satan will get his little toehold because you're not working towards you know that triangle that you're talking about like towards God and towards each other. So but we're super excited to be starting that next year. So for our listeners, you know we do here at Lifehouse have a big heart to pour into marriages so whether you're in a good place, I think it was interesting you know first week you have to evaluate you know it's like you know are you a one to a 10? And I I would even say it's interesting and I think that through like you're probably better off if you're a five and you're coming and you're working on it versus you're a nine and you're apathetic. Yeah. You know so I mean you you're either trending up or you're trending down. And if you're not working on it you're trending down. Maybe you don't know it yet but uh just an opportunity like it's for everybody. It's not just like you said admitting we have struggles. Hey we all have struggles we can all work on things and I think you guys alluded to it even for Ash and I we had some weeks where there's some intense conversations and things you hadn't talked about before. So I definitely encourage our listeners if you're interested reach out to us more information if you come here to Lifehouse will be uh coming out we're excited it's kind of an ongoing program so it's not like if you're not there week one you miss the boat but something we truly have a heart to uh continue to help people get engaged re-engaged with with that and improve their marriage but well Chris and Kathy thank you guys so much one for all you do here at Lifehouse taking some time uh to come on the podcast I know it's a sacrifice you guys Chris is uh all over the place and Kathy very busy with her own business and and just so many things that you guys do. So appreciate your time uh just everything you guys do to help marriages and really just show the love of Christ.

SPEAKER_01:

So thanks for having us thanks Nate it was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_05:

So remember Lifehouse Family we love. Show that love in your homes in your communities and your workplaces continue to uh take that love forward and thanks for journeying with us this month. We will see you all next time to the Life Talk podcast if this episode encouraged you please be sure to like comment subscribe and leave a review so others can find this content as well and we'll look forward to seeing you next Monday for another great episode

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Jarvis Brennan

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